Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

[Lorielle]

No, DRK actually ends up having lower DPS than PLD after about 2 minutes of fighting (as an OT, about 2 and a half as MT), thanks to its woeful TP issues

I'm really confused how this works. How is DRK parsing lower than PLD exactly? TP Starve? PLD has the same exact TP costs as DRK. They -should- be seeing the same point of starvation if they're doing the typical combos. 70 > 60 > 60. Now don't mind me, I'm just curious. I don't know what PLD's new Offensive abilities are if that should even factor into it.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I'm really confused how this works. How is DRK parsing lower than PLD exactly? TP Starve? PLD has the same exact TP costs as DRK. They -should- be seeing the same point of starvation if they're doing the typical combos. 70 > 60 > 60. Now don't mind me, I'm just curious. I don't know what PLD's new Offensive abilities are if that should even factor into it.

Paladin abilities have more potency. They also have Fight or Flight and SWORD Oath, which is more damage then darkside. None of these abilities have an MP penalty either. Although many seem to think they lack in AOE, they can now trigger their new high damage dots to secure aggro on multiple opponents.

You could say a Dark Knight's abilities have more potency, but realisticly how many times can you really use Dark Arts? without it several of your abilities are worthless. Compared to Paladin which needs nothing to enhance his abilities.

Shield Swipe is also a free big attack after a block. (VERY LOW TP COST!)

Shield Swipe is one of the big kickers, which would not show up on the parse.

[Kaonis]

I'm really confused how this works. How is DRK parsing lower than PLD exactly? TP Starve? PLD has the same exact TP costs as DRK. They -should- be seeing the same point of starvation if they're doing the typical combos. 70 > 60 > 60. Now don't mind me, I'm just curious. I don't know what PLD's new Offensive abilities are if that should even factor into it.

DRK has no way to manage TP, so we hit 0 far faster. PLD has some useful spells to take up a GCD and give them another tic or 2 of TP every once in a while, plus Shield Swipe procs. DRK could be amazing at DPS, but it means nothing if you hit empty on TP after just 2 minutes.

[Faytte]

Paladin abilities have more potency. They also have Fight or Flight and SWORD Oath, which is more damage then darkside. None of these abilities have an MP penalty either. Although many seem to think they lack in AOE, they can now trigger their new high damage dots to secure aggro on multiple opponents.

You could say a Dark Knight's abilities have more potency, but realisticly how many times can you really use Dark Arts? without it several of your abilities are worthless. Compared to Paladin which needs nothing to enhance his abilities.

Shield Swipe is also a free big attack after a block. (VERY LOW TP COST!)

Shield Swipe is one of the big kickers, which would not show up on the parse.

Our Royal Authority combo has 30 more potency than a NON dark art'ed soul eater combo. If you DA every third combo, you are comftorably in the lead. Add in that you have over 2000 free off gcd potency (free) attacks per minute and have a constant 15% buff and I have no idea what you are talking about. And it doesnt do anything like heal us for damage dealt.

Shield Swipe is not free, it costs slightly less tp than you regen in the same time frame, only applies when you are tanking. Shield Swipe costs a GCD, its not free--its not a DPS increase (it is below the average damage of a RA combo (230). Shield Swipe is good because A) it helps slightly with our tp as a MT B) it lets you keep aggro up during goring blade combos, or as extra aggro during another combo. It is ~not~ a dps increase over doing your RA combo.

Paladins tanking cannot generally cast spells in raids--any hit over 20% of your health interupts a spell cast, which in raids means auto attacks from bosses. Given clemency is a 3 second cast and bosses auto about 2-2.5 seconds....yeah...

All this is a bunch of hooey. Your TP management is almost the same as a paladins, and while not as good--your off GCD offense is spectacular, your AOE is spectacular, you gain mobility and other features others would love.

[Xenosan]

I'm really confused how this works. How is DRK parsing lower than PLD exactly? TP Starve? PLD has the same exact TP costs as DRK. They -should- be seeing the same point of starvation if they're doing the typical combos.

Blood Weapon's 10% +SkSpd with 36% uptime may have something to do with it.

Given a slashing debuff, I wonder where things stand.

Sword Oath has always been a silent but deadly factor

[Kiteless]

Our Royal Authority combo has 30 more potency than a NON dark art'ed soul eater combo. If you DA every third combo, you are comftorably in the lead. Add in that you have over 2000 free off gcd potency (free) attacks per minute and have a constant 15% buff and I have no idea what you are talking about. And it doesnt do anything like heal us for damage dealt.

You do a great job of leaving out PLD's Fight or Flight, which adds +30% damage for 30 seconds, every 90 seconds. That's essentially a straight up 10% damage increase over time that applies to everything that PLD does, including auto attacks (Including Sword Oath's added 1400+ potency per minute, not restricted to any form of cooldown or resource), weapon skills, oGCDs, and DoTs. DRK's only damage increasing cooldown, Blood Weapon, increases our attack speed by 10% for 15 seconds every 40. That's overall a 3.75% increase in damage over time that only applies to weapon skills. Furthermore, that increase also costs us a lot more TP than PLD spends for the same damage. All those oGCD skills we have exist in an attempt to help us catch up to the raw damage output PLD can put out.

All this is a bunch of hooey. Your TP management is almost the same as a paladins, and while not as good--your off GCD offense is spectacular,

PLD beats DRK's entire oGCD offense with a single skill, and it doesn't even expend any resources of theirs.

your AOE is spectacular, you gain mobility and other features others would love.

Almost every DRK would happily give those "bonuses" up for the ability to actually be valuable in a raid situation. Our AoE weapon skills are only as powerful as WAR's Overpower at best (the circular pattern is certainly nice, but no WAR should have difficulty getting mobs lined up for Overpower), with a much harder to manage MP cost associated. Salted Earth is one of the best AoE DoTs in the game, but in our context, only makes up for the fact that WAR can get a sizeable amount of AoE damage out of Steel Cyclone, Decimate, and its myriad of offensive buffs.
DRK's mobility skill is a good one, but also a fundamental part of its damage output, and can't really be afforded to be left unused without a very large drop in DPS, meaning that most any real benefit of this mobility is based on luck.

[RubenSnizzle]

So...are the DRK main, finally noticing that DRK is only a Second Hand tank? Not excellent at MT if a PLD is in the party and not excellent at OT if a WAR is in the party?

Sure you can hold your own and blah blah, but most of the skills DRK has is to benefit itself only, doesn't help much the group compared to pld&war.

You can complain to me about their skills VS pld&war, but it's just my opinion.

Face it, DRK is just an outcast, even i, who absolutely loved DRK first-hand, started to really despise their end-game skills because it LACKS.

[Ipkonfig]

Boy all these poor DRKs crying makes me sad . Just focus on the class and learn to tank with it. DRK is great. Doesn't get out damaged by PLD by the way. I don't know why people keep saying that, Royal Authority's combo is lower average potency than anything a DRK can do, and Goring Blade is also gated by a combo while Scourge is just a stand alone 500 potency. I'm typically 150 to 200 DPS higher than a PLD.

Actually was doing a Bis Ex clear for a member today and the PLD tank got knocked off right at the beginning of the third phase and I tanked all three adds for the rest of the fight till we cleared. But yea, third rate tank. Please just actually TRY and learn the class instead of being terrible with it and calling it bad.

[Xenosan]

.. I tanked all three adds for the rest of the fight till we cleared.

Somewhere there's a healer going unappreciated

[Galgarion]

Yeeeeah, I'm not even touching the DK job until these flaws have been ironed out. I'm just getting back in XIV with this expansion, and I'm having a sickeningly fun time with Warrior. I feel as though the DK would be a blast to play with as well, but the only thing I hate worse than healing a squishy tank is being one.

It's hard figuring out the character niche of the Dark Knight as well for group play. The Warrior is a powerful beast who runs wild on his enemies; a trash-talking, mouth smashing brute carved out of rock who dishes out more pain than he receives. The Paladin is a gallant protector, a chivalrous knight, the quintessential 'heroic figure' who never leaves a comrade behind, and fears nothing and no one. The traditional theme for dark Knights is 'selfishness and pain' but where does that fit in for his tanking theme? Like, how do you translate something like that into fun gameplay that involves protecting others? The most memorable DK I can recall was Gaffgarion from FF:Tactics, and he was pretty much a jaded dick.