Hopefully Alexander/Savage will be 24 mans.

[FoxyAreku]

They won't be, thank god.

Coordinating 25 people to do difficult content is like herding a bunch of headless turkeys. I learned that from wow, I'll never understand the appeal, I guess it's different when you don't have to lead it or worry about replacing when a fourth of the raid doesn't show up on time.

Plus it's so much less personal, you don't get to bond or make friends. It's just a mass of people talking over each other. :|

Keep 24 man raids easy mode pugfests.

[raelgun]

They won't be, thank god.

Coordinating 25 people to do difficult content is like herding a bunch of headless turkeys. I learned that from wow, I'll never understand the appeal, I guess it's different when you don't have to lead it or worry about replacing when a fourth of the raid doesn't show up on time.

Plus it's so much less personal, you don't get to bond or make friends. It's just a mass of people talking over each other. :|

Keep 24 man raids easy mode pugfests.

The experience is different with an organised skilled set of players, this is my experience in WoW, fully organised skilled 24 other people in 25 man raids is very good fun, I honestly do not care for the state of PUGs.

[Felessan]

One of the reasons its hard is because 8 man coils were so exclusive and picky. It is hard to find 8 people, and since classes are better then others in 8 man content you have to not only be restrictive in classes, you have to be elitist in skills as well. You can't just bring anyone.

A 24 man is a lot less restrictive, even allows you to form alliances and makes the game more open.

Why do you think 24 man is less restrictive? Restrictiveness is just a factor of difficulty, 24 man raid with difficulty of FCOB will be as restrictive as 8 man.
And some classes are better than others in a given situation. Be it 4 man party, 8 man raid, 24 or 40 man raids. Party optimization was a thing in WoW 40 man raids, some classes were more welcomed than others. So size of raid does not really change anything.

[Remus]

Please no 24 man alex...people complain enough getting 8 people together now you want people to get 24? good luck with that.

[Martin_Arcainess]

[QUOTE=LTEvil;3104311]Yeah but the idea need to be rounded more.

As far as what Martin says.
1.That one person can mess up. Large raids aren't as strict as small ones generally.
Yeah not saying that in 8 man 1 can mess up but it's easier to fill up a 8 decent man group then 24 man group and size dosn't not have anything to do with strictness.
2.Well you wouldn't have to do it. It's Mainly something I want for FC's to take part in.
You mean you want 8+ more members of your FC going into Savage? your funeral. You ever attempted Savage? Or even done any of the raids before increased iLV or echo was added? Savage is makes WOD on day 1 look like a holiday dream.
3.That's easily sorted out due to fight mechanics. Plenty of ways to put extra roles to work.
lol no, why do you think there is only 1 Tank per CT and WOD now?
4. I can't imagine 24 man speaking on TS because usually raids have a leader and. A few others who speak and that's it. Even for 8 man's. To have other talk is inefficient.
Then you never came across a social Raid group then. IF we had 24 people on TS we'll never get shit done just talk about random stuff.
6.Then you find new people. It's not do or die content. More like variation.
No, no and No. I like progress, I enjoy progress I do not enjoy progress then reset said progress cuz 2 members had a fallen out, 3 aways on Holiday and 1 forgot about it.
Variatioin? What do you mean by that?

[Grotesque]

You can simply ignore the OP. Once in a while he always brings up the same topic. Hard content will be 8-man. Easy peace of cake content will then be 24 man. Keep it. Already hard enough to organize 8 ppls schedules these days.

[Chessala]

Juuuuust sharing so OP can see that the raid will be 8-man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...e4&app=desktop

[Able]

And, with that, you can watch the clear rates for Savage go from pretty damn low to basically non-existent. No thanks. I have no desire to find 23 other people to do difficult content with. I'm fine with the 24-mans being more about faceroll-ish fun.

[Sessurea]

nope, would fail. 24 ppl in appropriate gear would be a challenge in terms of dps maybe, however even when half of those get very well geared, it would become a stompfest. aswell as the fact that mechanics would have to be watered down to the point of mundane.

As it is with an 8 man raid, they can set it up so everyone gets a moment of responsibility each in a raid, usually at least. Chances are with an 8 man, the ball is in your park at some point and if u mess up it's a wipe. This just isn't gonna happen with 24 man. There would be mad carrying in a 24 man.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I like how people say challenging content cannot be done when other games with way less of a population can do it. I think people are afraid honestly of more then 8+ man's because its something new and something they are not used to.

8 man's are honestly WAY too exclusive, yes every person has a role however that means that the content has to be developed for everyone to be in sync. Which means content becomes more "Learn to take the test and do it." for content like that it has to be done that way.

If they continue with 8 mans, they are going to have to literally re-balance a lot of classes because they are not honestly equal. However, if the main content goes to 24 man's a LOT more classes will be viable do to raid-wide buffs, especially classes like Astrologen for example.

24 man content in this game is more popular then coils. Fact. Yes, almost everyone did them because they were easier and good to get into. Which is not really a bad thing.

8 man content is exclusive, and only a few percent of the server could do it. That is very bad, and breeds a ton of elitism which I even see in the thread.

24 man raids are way less likely to kick and replace someone, and more accepting to let a new player in their raid static. Truth. This is simply human and mob nature, even if the raids are harder or as hard as coil they will be more accepting of pugs and new players.

I can understand your point of view but instead of removing the 8 players endgame raids I'd suggest to add a savage versione of the next 24 players raid.

This because the 24 players, other than nearly impossibile to organize, are very impersonal. I like to do endgame with my close friends and I'd drop it if it needed 24 players.

I have known my raiding friends for 9 years now. I guess that is impersonal, however can you please not just "make up things?" thank you. =) Just saying whatever you want doesn't win you a prize. You need to actually experience something before commenting on it.

If Alexander Savage were to be a 24 man raid, it would need to be as easy as Cloud of Darkness with the same loot lockout, rather than Coils.

Sometime's it's already difficult to get everyone in a static of 8 to show up on time (these 7 other players you form a friendly relationship with, which makes it easy to forgive them when they're incapable of showing up on time). Imagine 24, where there's a chance of 5 or more people not showing up on time or at all for one reason or another. You either HAVE TO skip raid night for those people, or risk locking them out of content by taking PuGs. The battle mechanics would also need to be watered down, as most Coil fights have that one mechanic that just needs one person to screw everything up. Imagine 23 people wiping because one person didn't follow a mechanic? It would be frustrating and progression would never be made.

What is this fear though? Why do 24-man raids "HAVE" to be easy, because they are impossible? I guess my raiding in Everquest was all a big dream and lie. <3

Especially in TSO, which had raids where one person could screw it up. Yet 20% of the population could clear some of them, NOW MIND YOU! They didn't clear the entire zones, they only cleared about half the zones or a named after. However - why should you be able to clear an entire zone? Some people and raids could only clear one named which gave them gear to tackle the next named in another zone. Which was a really fun concept and added a lot of life to the game.

24-mans are a lot more fun because you can have one person screw up and still win with good players. Did you notice how the new groups are designed? If you lose a player you can still do the fights except they become WAY harder unlike level 50 zones. They have sustain and other things, but they are fun fights. The new zones fights are fun, even if you fail a mechanic it doesn't fully punish you, skill can pull you out of a mess.

World of Darkness whilst everyone says is faceroll easy. Imagine would it would of been like if we went in with ilevel 70-90 gear instead of i130 gear. It wouldn't of been as "faceroll" then would it? If the average player and raid went in with what they started to go in with with coils the tune would of probably changed.

Try doing a 24-man raid of World of Darkness with full ilevel 90 gear and tell me how easy it is. It is much more challenging then people give it credit for. Really, you came in with ilvl130 gear, remember that.

Yeah but the idea need to be rounded more.

As far as what Martin says.
1.That one person can mess up. Large raids aren't as strict as small ones generally.
2.Well you wouldn't have to do it. It's Mainly something I want for fcs to take part in.
3.That's easily sorted out due to fight mechanics. Plenty of ways to put extra roles to work.
4. I can't imagine 24 man speaking on TS because usually raids have a leader and. A few others who speak and that's it. Even for 8 man's. To have other talk is inefficient.
6.Then you find new people. It's not do or die content. More like variation.

People are very against it because they went in with gear that is much better then the gear was intended to be done with and call it a cakewalk. People are also afraid of different kinds of content in the game even though the new classes are designed for raids. Many class abilities have been changed and adjusted to benefit more then 8 people and people I think are afraid of that. The developers saw how popular the 24-mans were compared to 8 mans and didn't like how exclusive 8 mans were, and those are the facts. However nobody knows the future yet. Just don't wear or stress yourself out. You are 100% right! <3

Go take a look at wow and what happened in WoD when Mythic suddenly required 20 when heroic(previous hard difficulty before they added flexible raids in MoP) had only required 10 all the way back to Cataclysm.

Recruitment issues abound and top world first race guilds disbanding over it.

Bad idea.

Statics already have recruitment issues, I don't see anyone inviting for anything here and there is already drama in the game with 8 mans. People are being kicked out of raids already for playing inefficient classes and there is already tons of drama. You just don't see it as much because 8 mans are so exclusive. However if your telling me that there is not drama you are in fact lying. There is LOTs of elitism and drama. I have heard so many stories about people being kicked and replaced.

I also would not reference WoW, since it honestly has no content worth mentioning. At all. Its raids are easier then WoD, might as well be loot pinotta zones.

Since the other side of the same coin has the same issues. Isn't it also a "bad idea?" since you didn't exactly have anything to back up your point?

If 8 mans aren't your thing than 8 mans aren't your thing. 8 mans were designed for a different audience from yourself, and that audience has a blast with them. Fun is subjective. Who are you to say they're having fun wrong and should have that means of having fun taken away from them?

I don't think you understand, I never said to remove them. Did I? <3

I said that we should be focusing as 24 man's as the main content because it would make the classes a lot more balanced overall. 8 man's means several classes will need redesigned. Bards in raids for example are a lot more valuable then bards in 8 mans.