The argument"MCH/Bard have utility so their damage should be lower"

[yamochan]

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would you mind to look at other mmorgs (all but final fantasy ones) and tell me plz where the range movement class is far behind anyone no matter if caster who has stand still or melee who also has to move from and to boss ect

cause look at some titles here: WoW: nope almost same dmg around all classes and who falls behind gets fixed pretty fast FOR YEARS
Guildwars 2: maybe a bad example for boss mechanics but the classes are dead even
Rift: even has a supheal and supdps underclass that is balanced out
Wildstar: perhaps the smallest one and the one i got the least exp in but im still reading the forums there are some complaints here and there but all in all is very even.

all those games have caster classes and range dps classes like hunters ect. and those classes bring utility as hell and still do enough dmg so maybe ffxiv wants to be a special little honey bunny but i dont rly get it.

also to name a boss real quick twintania i think u will remember her (TWISTER!) also the tier 2 with the illness mechanic way harder for ranges than melee shall i go on?

[BlurtedNonsense]

any class that brings utility to the group should not have equal damage as a pure bred DPS class thats just basic game design of balance. There\\'s nothing to argue, yea they do less damage, but they help the group survive or buff other players. Don\\'t forget MCH and BRD are Ranged classes, from that mechanic alone they have an advantage on certain boss fights, this is known if you ever played any other MMO, Melee dps always have the disadvantage. BLM is the exception because they cannot move while casting, which in turn hurts dps in a heavy moving fight.

You\\'re wrong about your like "any other MMO" comment. Other MMO\\'s like WoW, guild wars2 and other MMO with a holy trinity mechanic have range classes that output the same dps as melee or down right do the most dps with a companion tagging along making it do more DPS. While having mobility and having a wide range of abilities that are supportive, minus all the refresh. I\\'d say with the MCH at least SE should have moved away from making a BRD clone with a modern twist. I don\\'t see why you\\'d need two jobs doing the same shit. Sure I make sure to keep people happy with the refreshing buffs (that\\'s because I don\\'t want to get kicked, as BRDs and MCH are being kicked in Bismark ex as I type this) that is the only thing keeping me in the group it seems like. Also have you guys been in the new dungeons and trials as BRD and MCH? I\\'m having to move just as much as melee so anyone\\'s argument on "melee have to move more so they should be the only ones to do damage" is bullshit. That doesn\\'t justify why we have to be gimped.

It\\'s almost like SE is trying to punish the BRD/MCH on purpose so to make their love child job the DRG not be the \\'lol DRG\\' anymore. This last \\'hotfix,\\' fixed rapid fire to make GB not instant cast when used. How was this a fix?! It actually made it to where, my DPS was increased by 150dps. I could time my rotation to where I can use up all the GCD abilities with reload and switch back without skipping a beat sept for one or two cast timers hitting me. That hit to going back to long casting of the GB to even doing anything killed our DPS to point we are seeing the OT get close to us in DPS.

I say separate the wonder twins BRD and MCH, make MCH have a promotion effect of something debuffing the enemy and screw away with the refresh and make it more of a truer DPS with no cast on GB. Make the BRD not lose the hit on dealing damage while playing songs and all will be well. Problem solved, it will be more than accepted among the community while making the jobs more unique. It\\'s not going to make them OP but it will make them at least a bit more equal to other DPS while having supportive effects.

[BlurtedNonsense]

Well looks like you beat me to the punch yamochan.

[Finalflash]

@Tsilyi.
I have no idea where you got that information from, but having test phases in game helps A LOT... Especially when it involves new content. 15 years of participation of mmo gaming alphas/betas kinda tells you that.
I mean, how else are you going to test out classes/bosses that might be a little too powerful/weak for the new content? Thus, you can't really know until you actually test things out.
I'm not talking about bugs in-game. I'm talking about class imbalances mostly here. Have a look at the warrior class for example... Do you think a tank is supposed to outdps a dps class with his dps stance is normal? Clearly, no.
The mech class is a little too complex and requires a lot of work to achieve decent damage at most.
Also, I'm fully aware that you can't squash every single bug/imbalance that the new game is currently having, but you can help smoothing things out much better with actual feedback from the players.

[Thunda51]

we aint got any support role in this game we are all dmg dealers, heals and tanks and so we should all be on par as said above nearly all classes bring some support to the table then why are only BRD and MCH punished for it?

That is why I say this argument is BS. MCH/BRD are DPS classes but there are those out there who want to place us as support because of TP/MP regen. Last time I checked my role was under the DPS class and that is first and foremost my role in the game. The fact that we do less DPS than the OT is ridiculous.

[TrailArnizay]

Until they add a support slot to parties, BRD/MCH should do equal DPS to any other DPS.

[Zyrusticae]

Until they add a support slot to parties, BRD/MCH should do equal DPS to any other DPS.

And they never will (add a support slot, that is), because they would have to fundamentally change large chunks of the game to support that. As long as BRD/MCH take up DPS slots they need to do AT LEAST more DPS than freakin' off-tanks!

[Ryaz]

The whole "hybrid tax" that was popularized by WoW has long since proven to be ineffective. Many people used to say "If you gave Druids the ability to do damage or tank as well as others, then they'd be the only class played". Guess what? They were given the tools to do just that and the other classes weren't killed because of it. It just gave other classes a chance.

And as others have said, there's no "support" slot in this game. We take up a dps slot. We aren't the only class that brings utility and group buffs. And yes, we do bring TP/MP regen, but it comes at the cost of DPS as it is. As for our ranged mobility, GB hinders that for no gain. On top of that, fight mechanics are always different. Not every boss is going to destroy melee and leave ranged alone and vice versa.

In the end, there's no real reason to hold back MCH and BRD from doing competitive damage outside of people believing it'll make their classes obsolete, which it won't. Every class brings something to the table dps wise, whether it's enmity control or a giant 15% crit buff. A 15% crit buff, I might add, that allows other classes to deal a larger portion of damage, shortening fight times and putting less stress on healers as well.

When classes are equal, then people will play what they want. I don't see a difference here. However, when a class can't complete mechanics (such as dps checks) because of some arbitrary tax, then it's a problem.

[Beleth]

-BLM gets Apochiasisis and is outright the king of AoE with no rival

So we have an ability that can be used on a single party member every 3 minutes, long cast times and you get: TP & MP regeneration, magic damage buff, a silence and a status ward. Yet somehow you're expecting to do the same damage as us? Maybe you're not sure what this word you constantly talk about, "balance", really means.
As for the AoE King part: nay, that spot belongs to SMN now.

[XgungraveX]

snip

drg-leg sweep Stun for 3s
war- brutal swing Stun for 3 sec
pld- shield bash Stun for 3 sec
mnk- steel peak Stun for 4 sec
nin- jugulate silence for 1 sec with wasp venom stun for 2 secs
drg-low blow stun for 5 sec
smn- storm pet action stun sec
bard-blunt arrow
mch-head graze
all tho jobs have a CC to so have a silence is not really advantage now lets see what jobs increase all dmg or lowers def
war- storms eye 10% slashing res debuff for nin
drk-BattleLitany increases crit to self or party members,Disembowel Reduces target's piercing resistance by 10% for 20s. great for mch since they aslo do peircing dmg
bard- foe feq Reduces the magic resistance of all enemies by 10%.
smn- virus Reduces target's STR and DEX by 15% for 10s.
nin-trick attack Increases target's damage taken by 10% for 10s everybody
mch-overcharge rook turret Effect: Increases target’s physical damage taken by 5%. Duration: 10s or bishop turret Effect: Increases target’s magic damage taken by 5% Duration: 10s so either or melee or caster( reset timer on every hit)
drk-Delirium Reduces target's INT by 10% for 20s
now what do that leave us? tp and mp regen which i said in my previous post....

but every physical dps has invigorate tho which is on a 2 min cd i never see a dps ask for a tp gen out outside of a tank,which nin just goad them. let be honest here the only time i see called 98% is mostly mp regen that only
A healer is casting Resurrection on down players and mana is runs dry fast
b casting holy or flare

so yea brd/mch should be on par with other dps, other jobs have "utility" as well should they be punished? no