The argument"MCH/Bard have utility so their damage should be lower"

[XgungraveX]

any class that brings utility to the group should not have equal damage as a pure bred DPS class thats just basic game design of balance. There's nothing to argue, yea they do less damage, but they help the group survive or buff other players. Don't forget MCH and BRD are Ranged classes, from that mechanic alone they have an advantage on certain boss fights, this is known if you ever played any other MMO, Melee dps always have the disadvantage. BLM is the exception because they cannot move while casting, which in turn hurts dps in a heavy moving fight.

one again this wrong in what mmorpg where melee have top dps just because there close to battle really? get out with that mindset. brd/mch should be able to do decent dmg to raid bosses just like every dps role

[yamochan]

here is something from the bard thread that says it as clear as the day and im totaly behind that:

I've said pages back I'd be all for a support role. I'd trade in my Bow for a Harp and do a song rotation if you can convince Yoshi-P to re-balance everything to require a support. Currently I queue as DPS though.

[chumsy]

one again this wrong in what mmorpg where melee have top dps just because there close to battle really? get out with that mindset. brd/mch should be able to do decent dmg to raid bosses just like every dps role

Im sure they do decent DMG, but not top tier. Something along the lines of 5-10% less than melee is balanced. Melee only shine in a fight where they dont have to run away from Boss mechanics. So really it depends on the boss fight as well. Lets take Garuda ex for example, if youre on the wrong side of the tornado as a melee you cant do shit, but ranged can still dps regardless, and because of that they should do less damage thats balance. You think range should do the same as melee? they can attack on the move, better than a BLM, and dodge mechanics easier than melee, and do the same DMG? absurd

I reiterate why MCH/BRD should do slightly less DPS:
they are Ranged classes (If i recall most of their skills are instant, this separates it from caster ranged dps classes)
They bring utility

[XgungraveX]

Im sure they do decent DMG, but not top tier. Something along the lines of 5-10% less than melee is balanced. Melee only shine in a fight where they dont have to run away from Boss mechanics. So really it depends on the boss fight as well. Lets take Garuda ex for example, if youre on the wrong side of the tornado as a melee you cant do shit, but ranged can still dps regardless, and because of that they should do less damage thats balance. You think range should do the same as melee? they can attack on the move, better than a BLM, and dodge mechanics easier than melee, and do the same DMG? obsurd

thats just boss mechanics which have been staple of mmorpgs since the first one, some are in favor of melee some time in favor of ranged your argument still doesn't hold water why brg/mch should be in the poor state that there in now.

[XgungraveX]

here is something from the bard thread that says it as clear as the day and im totaly behind that:

not to be that guy but ff11 had support role that did that... and that all they did

[chumsy]

The argument that we are ranged so we should do less is silly. Summoner and black Mage are ranged as well. And every job brings support/utility of some kind. We shouldn't be number 1 but we should be closer to the other dps jobs as well. When we do use our "support skills tp/mp" it already lowers our damage so your argument is moot.

Like i stated again, BRD/MCH can attack on the move, which separates them from caster ranged DPS. it makes perfect sense to me, you dont lose DPS because you dont require a casting bar for every attack, think about it.

[chumsy]

thats just boss mechanics which have been staple of mmorpgs since the first one, some are in favor of melee some time in favor of ranged your argument still doesn't hold water why brg/mch should be in the poor state that there in now.

really? name a fight where ranged has a disadvantage over melee dps? I dont recall any. Melee loses a lot of dps time running around avoiding boss mechanics, and in the case of some classes MNK specifically, lose buffs. while BRD/MCH can just shoot from anywhere on the map. two targets on opposite ends of the map, you tell me whos gonna have higher dps ranged or melee?

[NoahArks]

Like i stated again, BRD/MCH can attack on the move, which separates them from caster ranged DPS. it makes perfect sense to me, you dont lose DPS because you dont require a casting bar for every attack, think about it.

I don't think you get it. The lvl52 skill brd/mch get is stationary. You can't move while using attacks, no auto-attack and on top of that it has a cast time. But here it comes. It gives you a extra 20% damage, which still gives us lower dps than a OT. Though, I have to say you chose a great way to make a idiot out of yourself. You didn't even research anything while making those posts of yours.

[mb52139]

But.. we do less DPS.. when we lose our mobility and gain a caster bar.

[XgungraveX]

really? name a fight where ranged has a disadvantage over melee dps? I dont recall any. Melee loses a lot of dps time running around avoiding boss mechanics, and in the case of some classes MNK specifically, lose buffs. while BRD/MCH can just shoot from anywhere on the map. two targets on opposite ends of the map, you tell me whos gonna have higher dps ranged or melee?

keeper of the lake. last boss is not ranged friendly