The argument"MCH/Bard have utility so their damage should be lower"

[Garan]

The song damage hit was changed to 15% with Heavensward

fixed thanks

[SovereignAegis]

15% or not that is far more more than cross-classed blood for blood which is a skill that people go and level a lancer specifically to get and that is a coveted buff.

It is by no means negligible.

[Sessurea]

Ex primals =/= raids. They have tons of downtime where physical dps can regen tp and healers can regen mana. "anything works" in extreme primals.

Alex savage will be the exact opposite lol... it will probably have instances where the raid is getting obliterated and the majority of healers wont be able to keep their mp afloat. sure mr pro whm coming to forum who cleared fcob with ilvl 130 and echo will tell u he didn't need mana song, but on progression this is not the case. Then theres tp issues in long fights with no downtime. No nin doesn't cover because guess who has to provide tp for the nin? And this is worse during early stages of progression because less damage = longer fight = larger degree of tp starvation.

And come on, who cares about DF. make a blm for it like everyone else did back in myth flox days.

If we want to prevent things from degrading, we have to at least maintain the sort of gap that was present in ARR, and not the much bigger gap we're seeing in Heavensward.

We need the raids for that. Non striking dummy situations will destroy these amazing 1.2k dps parses we hear about. Unless we are dealing with mechanics, brd/mcn dps will be affected the least. I can see us getting a smallll buff, but nothing that will really offset how things currently are.

[XgungraveX]

snip

but every physical dps has invigorate tho which is on a 2 min cd i never see a dps ask for a tp gen out outside of a tank,which nin just goad them. let be honest here the only time i see called 98% is mostly mp regen that only
A healer is casting Resurrection on down players and mana is runs dry fast
b casting holy or flare

[Panasync]

That's when BRDs got nerfed. Their potencies were severely crippled across the board. The devs needed to make it non-viable to take more than one BRD. The nerf to the job's damage output needed to be severe enough that it wasn't worth stacking them for their songs any more. That is why BRD's do so much less damage than the other jobs. Yes, other jobs have utility skills but ...

When did bards receive any nerfs to the jobs potency? 2.1 BL got a tooltip fix, it still output the same damage as pre 2.0, the only changes that had any real effects on bard were the changes to IR and B4B losing %, but this was across the board except the jobs where they were main skills. (they changed the proc on RoD to damage taken- to acc-, doesn't effect damage)

The game was only out for a few months up to this point, I would love to see some math on pre 2.1 jobs to back this up.

[Corbec]

My thoughts on support classes is that because of the 3 role setup that ffxiv has adopted, bard/mch in truth must be dps first and support second, it is seen in the lay out of the class almost all of there abilities are dps orientated. The vulnerabilities, and damage mitigation, is lower then other classes, yes they may have many kinds but none are as stong as the real thing on another class which is done to balance them having so many. I do not expect them to do the same single target as a melee dps, nor the same aoe as casters, but to be beaten in dps by tanks and at times healers, which in truth are the true support classes in the game, means that there are balancing issues. Also the fact that gauss/WM are carbon copies of each other is lazy and shameful on SE's part. I feel that mch and in turn bard since we share this new style of play is being punished for ninja being released and having the massive damage to the point of needing nerf.

[Zyrusticae]

And come on, who cares about DF. make a blm for it like everyone else did back in myth flox days.

Really?

First of all, you're wrong. SMN is the premier DF job nowadays.

Secondly, I don't freakin' play casters and I have zero interest in switching jobs purely to speedrun, so you can take that 'tip' and stick it where the sun don't shine.

We need the raids for that. Non striking dummy situations will destroy these amazing 1.2k dps parses we hear about. Unless we are dealing with mechanics, brd/mcn dps will be affected the least. I can see us getting a smallll buff, but nothing that will really offset how things currently are.

Sure, whatever. Too bad MCHs will still be getting kicked out when the brokenness of the job becomes extremely apparent.

[aabe]

,

dummies vs raids, raids will drop people's overall damage sure, dummy DPS has never been a good standard, but melee dps (and pretty much the rest) take a dump all over BRD's dps with full uptime on a dummy, they will take a dump on BRD dps in any fight because they're simply putting out more damage during their uptime.
A fight has to be terribly stacked against melee for BRDs to get close, any downtime you might have for mechanics is generally 1 GCD and that is not going to cut down the giant dps gap between BRD and DRG right now

[Ryaz]

I still say our biggest problem, no matter if our dps is supposed to be lower or not, is the fact that Gauss Barrel lowers our dps in most situations while restricting our movement. The skill is just poorly implemented and two other great skills get locked away if it's not used. I think if they fixed GB to do what it's supposed to do (provide DPS increase in exchange for mobility) and possibly do something about the down time between reloads, then the class itself will be fine. We should not be losing out to warriors in the damage department.

[yamochan]

had that discussion yesterday already in the other brd thread but here we go again. ^^
well actually we only need to consider one thing here are we support classes or are we dps classes?

well its pretty easy to answer that one aye? there are no support classes in ffxiv! or can you queue up as a support for a dungeon or raid? no u cant so we are dps classes and that means we have to have the same dps values as the rest by any means necessary.

if SE decide to include a support class and we can queue up as those its a whole other argument but since thats not the case we should rather ask how long it will take to finally fix us!