DRK + War

[Kaedan94]

if you actually cared to research this, a quick test on just about any Physical attacking mob can show you that -10% Strength is roughly 8% physical damage reduction. so that's 8% reduction on all Physical attacks that is available 100% of the fight. Reprisal has no such uptime.

so, no. Reprisal is not "far more effective" than Halone's debuff on Physical attacks.

I'd like to see a link to how those calculations are done. Because increasing your character's STR by 10% does not increase damage by 8%. So unless monsters use a different system...

Furthermore, even if that's true, that's only physical damage it's reducing, not magic. Reprisal does both.

[theamato]

I'd like to see a link to how those calculations are done. Because increasing your character's STR by 10% does not increase damage by 8%. So unless monsters use a different system...

Furthermore, even if that's true, that's only physical damage it's reducing, not magic. Reprisal does both.

uhh, you go up to a physical attacking mob, turn your back (so no Parry or Block), and let it hit you with AAs.

then you go up to the same mob, apply Halone, and let it hit you with AAs. with your back turned.

voila, results. repeat until you have a comfortable sample size.

as for Reprisal, it has far less uptime than Halone (67% if you Parry at the first possible downtime moment). it's good but it cannot be relied on like 100% mitigation.

[Sokerimuro]

What no one seems to bring up here, and is of utmost importance in a discussion such as this, is the Golden Rule of tanking. Repeat after me:
Spikes kill tanks!
Nothing else. Tanks do not die to autoattacks or steady boss damage. Unless the boss has powerful repeating physical cleave or exclusively physical tank busters RoH str debuff does not compete on the comparison.
It all boils down to what kind of damage the predictable spikes deal/what is the raid damage made up (in most cases this is magical)/does your setup have a MNK. I am MT of our static, and bringing up my DRK to use both PLD and DRK maintank whichever fits better the encounter at hand. Also our static does not sport a MNK.
Dark Knight definitely has the tools and the potential is there.

[Seku]

Random information that I already know

Your first paragraph has nothing to do with anything I've said or argued against.

Second, your second paragraph just repeated what I said, with some extra useless information I wasn't even debating, aka the storms path vs DV.

So I don't even know why you're responding to me as you just agreed to the very thing I just said

if there are more frequent hits on the party it becomes less significant

What you're suggesting it for, it does. Unless the fight is doing raid damage consistently.

Now back on topic. Even if reprisal was something to be use to prevent 10% damage on the raid, these actions normally only occur during certain times in a fight. It makes it unreliable. Unlike warriors damage reduction ability, it cannot simply be put up at will or timed.

I personally think too many people are comparing DRK to the other tanks, but really should be comparing it to what ground it already covers and if it can be switched out. Aka take the monk out of the party and replace it with a DPS that has better raid utility. Doing this you've got a tank that can still keep up the INT down and deal pretty good damage (seen parses with 900 dps, not sure now since they took a hit) and can allow for another party member to get in there to increase over all damage.

Example: Double ninja = 20 seconds of vulnerability and 2x goad.
Double Drg = 40 seconds(need to check source) of critical rate up.

Having these spread through out the party would increase damage quite a bit, while still maintaining the INT down, through DRK, that a monk previously would have brought to the table.

That or just play the job you want because everyone knows that SE is going throw a Echo buffs into the raids, which is when a majority of the player base does things that matter, and optimizing won't matter that much.

[Tila]

snip.

I do wonder what MNK will be given to remain relevant. So far the only valid reason I've ever seen for including a DRK over another tank is "So you dont have to take a monk and can take a dps that has more utility". In other words, MNK is in DRGs position from ARR of not bringing anything.

And yes, the only reason to bring a DRK is so you don't have to bring a MNK. No amount of whining about how "great" reprisal is will change that. Reprisal is a ok move that can only be used while MT and is overwhelmingly un-reliable to the point where it cant be used as a reasoning for bringing a DRK. And reprisal is the only unique thing the class brings.

[Rhaja]

I do wonder what MNK will be given to remain relevant. So far the only valid reason I've ever seen for including a DRK over another tank is "So you dont have to take a monk and can take a dps that has more utility". In other words, MNK is in DRGs position from ARR of not bringing anything.

And yes, the only reason to bring a DRK is so you don't have to bring a MNK. No amount of whining about how "great" reprisal is will change that. Reprisal is a ok move that can only be used while MT and is overwhelmingly un-reliable to the point where it cant be used as a reasoning for bringing a DRK. And reprisal is the only unique thing the class brings.

MNK's still do a respectable amount of damage, and people will want Int down without a DRK? Who knows, maybe Alexander will be crazy unlike Coil.

[Timat]

Quick Question...do we have difinitive proof if reprisal and storms path (or w/e the warrior debuff is called) stack or dont?

[Seku]

MNK's still do a respectable amount of damage, and people will want Int down without a DRK? Who knows, maybe Alexander will be crazy unlike Coil.

So can DRG and Nin. Except Drg is like top tier DPS right now or very close and Ninja is a superior TP regain and can make everyone do 10% more damage.

I do wonder what MNK will be given to remain relevant.

The only thing Monk has is that healing up by 20%. Which could be good for progression when you don't know when something is about to come flying down and hit you and the raid for a lot of damage. Ie: Good means to recover and give the healer's breathing room. But assuming you've got a paladin in the group, Divine Vile probably gives about the same breathing room, but 30 seconds more on the timer.