o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Vesper]

I am personally liking what I am seeing here, I think I need to think things over a bit longer to drop a final verdict, but it all looks positive.

I am in agreement with the conversion of item qualities people are suggesting. NQ and +1 should become NQ and +2 and +3 should be HQ, if I see my +2 items going into NQ I will be a very pissed off camper. But we have no official news on how this is going to go, yet.

[TheVedis]

I am personally liking what I am seeing here, I think I need to think things over a bit longer to drop a final verdict, but it all looks positive.

I am in agreement with the conversion of item qualities people are suggesting. NQ and +1 should become NQ and +2 and +3 should be HQ, if I see my +2 items going into NQ I will be a very pissed off camper. But we have no official news on how this is going to go, yet.

i think alot of people will be mad seeing their +1s get transformed into NQ too....
thats a concern i have

[NoctisUmbra]

i think alot of people will be mad seeing their +1s get transformed into NQ too....
thats a concern i have

Honestly, a lot of people will be mad no matter what changes - as long as something changes someone somewhere is always going to get pissy.

However it makes the most sense to split them right down the center. Yoshi says that HQ will provide a clear buff to the gear, and being that it is a single-tier HQ it would make more people upset if +1,2 and 3 all become HQ. This devalues the current +2/3 gears which both are considerably more difficult to obtain than a +1 - you don't even need HQ mats to get a +1 final product consistently.

If anything people should be happy for such an advanced notice. I'd take this opportunity to sell off any +1 and +3 gear I have (provided we get an official transition plan announced.)

[TheVedis]

Honestly, a lot of people will be mad no matter what changes - as long as something changes someone somewhere is always going to get pissy.

However it makes the most sense to split them right down the center. Yoshi says that HQ will provide a clear buff to the gear, and being that it is a single-tier HQ it would make more people upset if +1,2 and 3 all become HQ. This devalues the current +2/3 gears which both are considerably more difficult to obtain than a +1 - you don't even need HQ mats to get a +1 final product consistently.

If anything people should be happy for such an advanced notice. I'd take this opportunity to sell off any +1 and +3 gear I have (provided we get an official transition plan announced.)

the fact that it looks like there is going to be a new tier of crafted endgame gear(cobalt for instance) does give a bit of hope to the fact that the older stuff wont be as important to that effect either

but yeah people will be mad regardless, but one thing to look at, will you hit a bigger crowd by making +1s nq or hq?
i can almost guarentee a small fraction of players carry around +2/3 gear overall compared to +1s, most every hq peice of gear out there is a +1 so HQs would be near non existant under the new system to start if the change hits as such(and the people who worked for those +1s will be mad that they worked for them for nothing)

[Vesper]

the fact that it looks like there is going to be a new tier of crafted endgame gear(cobalt for instance) does give a bit of hope to the fact that the older stuff wont be as important to that effect either

but yeah people will be mad regardless, but one thing to look at, will you hit a bigger crowd by making +1s nq or hq?
i can almost guarentee a small fraction of players carry around +2/3 gear overall compared to +1s, most every hq peice of gear out there is a +1 so HQs would be near non existant under the new system to start if the change hits as such(and the people who worked for those +1s will be mad that they worked for them for nothing)

Will have to see more on this cobalt stuff. But atm its my least favorite. Its just going to be everyone looking the same (again). I think gear needs to have no stats on them whatsoever. Make it so crafters add the stats, new recipes would be new looks only. This way you could effectively mix and match tons of gear for a unique look and then have it statted to your preferences.

[Xenor]

I am personally liking what I am seeing here, I think I need to think things over a bit longer to drop a final verdict, but it all looks positive.

I am in agreement with the conversion of item qualities people are suggesting. NQ and +1 should become NQ and +2 and +3 should be HQ, if I see my +2 items going into NQ I will be a very pissed off camper. But we have no official news on how this is going to go, yet.

Likewise I will be a very pissed off camper if I see my +3 items devalued to the same level as easy to make +2s. Your +2 will have to become an NQ for the sake of balance, but of course we all know you'd love a free crab bow +3 so anything but making your +2 just as good as a +3 won't be good enough.

There's about 20 times as many +2s as +3s on my server so you're either going to nerf the rarity and have to nerf the stats on the HQ with it or you'll have to price casuals out of the HQ market. I can see the latter happening. Currently casuals buy/make +2 products, soon you won't be able to afford the HQs.

i can almost guarentee a small fraction of players carry around +2/3 gear overall compared to +1s, most every hq peice of gear out there is a +1 so HQs would be near non existant under the new system to start if the change hits as such(and the people who worked for those +1s will be mad that they worked for them for nothing)

I don't know about your server but on mine a +1 is worth little more than the price of NQs. I can't even sell my +1 crab bows at 150k. Like I said to Vesper, +3s are the only items that should be HQs.

Synhts are fine the way they are. the only people that complain about them being slow and difficult are the ones that dont like crafting at all but just do the easy stuff like fighting.. Those arent the majority though...

Indeed, and none of these changes will get them crafting either. It's a case of "I don't like you having fun without me so I don't want you to have fun, I'm taking my ball home!".

[NoctisUmbra]

Likewise I will be a very pissed off camper if I see my +3 items devalued to the same level as easy to make +2s. Your +2 will have to become an NQ for the sake of balance, but of course we all know you'd love a free crab bow +3 so anything but making your +2 just as good as a +3 won't be good enough.

There's about 20 times as many +2s as +3s on my server so you're either going to nerf the rarity and have to nerf the stats on the HQ with it or you'll have to price casuals out of the HQ market. I can see the latter happening. Currently casuals buy/make +2 products, soon you won't be able to afford the HQs.



I don't know about your server but on mine a +1 is worth little more than the price of NQs. I can't even sell my +1 crab bows at 150k. Like I said to Vesper, +3s are the only items that should be HQs.



Indeed, and none of these changes will get them crafting either. It's a case of "I don't like you having fun without me so I don't want you to have fun, I'm taking my ball home!".

There really is no need for that. Four tiers of quality items are going to be consolidated to 2 tiers. Sure, everyone can get all personal and say "oh no, my +3 is much too valuable over those guys with the +2s" or "oh no, I spent a lot of time gathering HQ mats and did many trials to end up with my +2, and I won't accept it becoming NQ now" but people need to get over themselves.

You seem to suggest that +2s becoming HQ just like +3s will devalue your +3? You have no idea to what extent a bonus HQ will have over NQ. No idea whether it is closer to the current +2 bonus, +3 bonus, or something even greater.

One has to think logically. One should consider more than their personal efforts and gains.

As the current system stands, one can achieve a +1 result without using any HQ mats or even using Careful Synthesis even once. You can simply Standard it to completion, then Touch Up repeatedly and can get a +1 quite easily.

To achieve a +2/+3 final result however, HQ mats become almost necessary since quality needs to be above 100/200 to even have a minor chance - and generally you want Quality above 300.

You can see a clear difference there between NQ,+1 and +2,3. It fits in quite well with the upcoming change of needing HQ mats to make HQ final products as well.

Based on this logic, it's just as silly for +2s to become NQ as it is for +1s to become HQ.

We'll see what happens.


PS: I still see most of the people complaining to have quite obvious misunderstandings of the changes brought up in the post.

You will not be able to make HQ mats just by having all HQ ingredients. That is reserved for final products. So, as an example, 4 HQ Iron Ores will not result in an HQ Iron Ingot 100% of the time. Based on Yoshi-P explicitly saying HQ materials will be very difficult to obtain, I wouldn't be surprised if it took at least as much effort to make an HQ material after that patch is it does to make a +2 now.

[darkstarpoet1]

PS: I still see most of the people complaining to have quite obvious misunderstandings of the changes brought up in the post.

PS: I still see most of the people supporting to have quite obvious misunderstandings of the changes brought up in the post.

a crafters job is to craft the item. yes, alot of us farm our own items so having to spend 5x the amount of time doing this boring battle systems in place now farming materials to be able to get back to what i enjoy is stupid. making a iron ingot is easy now and will be easy then. what was difficult to get now was a hq part that needed multiple hq items. that part of the complexity is gone and was the most rewarding for myself and many others.

getting the hq parts then getting high quality and getting the hq finished item on touch ups was a good feeling. now if i get a hq ingot i will be assured i get a hq final piece of gear. this shows that the dev team has no idea of what the crafters actually enjoy about the system. they also have no clue of what the reviews on this game actually talked good about. the armory system and crafting system were the 2 things that got good reviews.

[NoctisUmbra]

PS: I still see most of the people supporting to have quite obvious misunderstandings of the changes brought up in the post.

I'm sorry, but you failed to point out any misunderstandings I have about the changes brought up in Yoshi-P's post with your statements below. So... really? Cleverly switching it back on me without any back up substance?

a crafters job is to craft the item. yes, alot of us farm our own items so having to spend 5x the amount of time doing this boring battle systems in place now farming materials to be able to get back to what i enjoy is stupid. making a iron ingot is easy now and will be easy then. what was difficult to get now was a hq part that needed multiple hq items. that part of the complexity is gone and was the most rewarding for myself and many others.

getting the hq parts then getting high quality and getting the hq finished item on touch ups was a good feeling. now if i get a hq ingot i will be assured i get a hq final piece of gear. this shows that the dev team has no idea of what the crafters actually enjoy about the system. they also have no clue of what the reviews on this game actually talked good about. the armory system and crafting system were the 2 things that got good reviews.

However, it will be quite difficult to craft an HQ Ingot. The challenge is not being removed. It is being relocated.

There were plenty of crafters that wanted more of a sense of control over HQ results. Getting all HQ mats and having Quality go as high as 500 or 600 with a combination of skills, patience and luck just to see it persist in an NQ result while some crafters could get very lucky and achieve a +2 without even using more than 0 or 1 HQ mats is a major issue. The presence of Luck is much too dominant.

I'd much rather a system where obtaining all the necessary HQ ingredients is very challenging, but once that goal is achieved you can enjoy the fruits of your efforts.

What you see here is not a misunderstanding. It is a difference of opinion.

[darkstarpoet1]

I'm sorry, but you failed to point out any misunderstandings I have about the changes brought up in Yoshi-P's post with your statements below. So... really? Cleverly switching it back on me without any back up substance?



However, it will be quite difficult to craft an HQ Ingot. The challenge is not being removed. It is being relocated.

There were plenty of crafters that wanted more of a sense of control over HQ results. Getting all HQ mats and having Quality go as high as 500 or 600 with a combination of skills, patience and luck just to see it persist in an NQ result while some crafters could get very lucky and achieve a +2 without even using more than 0 or 1 HQ mats is a major issue. The presence of Luck is much too dominant.

I'd much rather a system where obtaining all the necessary HQ ingredients is very challenging, but once that goal is achieved you can enjoy the fruits of your efforts.

What you see here is not a misunderstanding. It is a difference of opinion.

it was brought up months a much easier solution, but because they want to go down to the lowest common denominator it hurts mid and high level in that craft. ok i do agree with you on the luck issue being too much of an influence. that was very frustrating. now follow me through a simple list of fixes that would have made it better overall and if you disagree point out the flaws.

fix 1: part fixes: in low level crafts needing a part(not basic strap, but like leather shoulder guards on a weaver synth) be removed and replaced by a basic item(such as a leather strap). as the crafts become more complex in level the need for parts from other crafts would become more acceptable, but as far as a low level synth with people just starting crafts it is not needed. items made by other classes in low level synths should be commonly used items such as buckles, straps, yarns, cloth, and squares.

also there is no need fore a hammer that is a r21 synth to require a hammer head that requires a r40 to make. lowering the level required to make the parts to be around the same level. if the hammer is r21 all parts should be @25 or below. you should never have to look for someone 20 levels above you to make a synth for an item you can make.

fix 2: adjustments to the mini game: this one i am not sure how to really improve. there's many things that can be done to make it more fun that hitting standard, but to me a more quest based leveling through the guilds or people requesting items would be a nice way to do so. say you are bored of grinding and wanted to do something different you could go to the guild and see if they had generic guild tasks or if a real player has requested an item for your rank.

say you wanted a cotton robe(red), but none were in the wards you could go to the guild and place an order with them to have it made and the npc would have a set price for you there. the crafters could come to the guild and check out the order list and say ok i can fill this order. it would be a nice way to actually have crafters you have never met be able to assist with the items that are not for sale and would be a win win both sides.

yes, you would still have grinding, but i just feel other options like the ones above would work for getting rid of the constant grind as well as help the overall economic process. the guild could give bonus sp for filling their orders. the bonus sp and the gil paid for the gear orders wold seem to be an incentive for the crafters to do such.

fix 3: changes in the hq system: right now luck does play too much of a role into the hqing of items. to me alot of that has to do with the role that hq parts have in the equation. right now if you put in all hq mats you can start off with quality of 300+. to me the items do not make a difference in the final product. it should be skill driven.

change 1. have all the bonuses from hq parts to the final quality be removed(the final item is not really high quality because of the pieces) and have all of the bonuses go into the durability. so you would start off with 200 durability and 0 quality to start the synth instead of 200 durability and 300 quality.

change 2. now that no matter what items you start off with you have 0 quality the actual final quality would depend on pure skill and not standard bashing and then touch ups.

starting with 0 quality the results could look like

0-99 quality after finishing = sure nq with a chance for hq+1
100-200 quality after finishing = sure hq+1 with a chance for hq+2
200-300 quality after finishing = sure hq+2 with a chance for hq+3
300+ quality after finishing = sure hq+3

that would still have the luck factor as a minor factor in the chance you may get a higher hq, but you would be able to know that you're not going to get multiple 600 quality nq's. it would allow the skills you have learned and your actual ability to determine the outcome of the synth.

this is the type of changes i could see working. i am not against change, but i just wish changes were more logical. these are full classes and to continue to be they will actually have to make it to where skill is the determining factor instead of who wants to go out and farm more items.

edit: i know super long book i posted. i am sorry for that, but you said you wanted suggestions on how to fix them so i took the time to type them out.