A request for some tough content.

[Chiz]

Respectfully, where did you get the statistic that out of the entire active player populate there exist only 10% who want "tough" content? If this statistic is in fact true then I would partially agree with you. I don't think that the needs for "more content" and "tough content" are mutually exclusive. More content indeed, yes, but not just "something-other-and-less-than-tough" content.

Its more of an arbitrary % based on the usual quoted ratio of "Hardcore" to "Casual" players for any particular MMO population. Some games release the % of total population that clear content, or hit certain milestones and it usually hovers in the 5-10% range until they nerf the content for the masses.

While you can certainly have more content that is "tough", if you've read the OP and some of his/her other posts you'd certainly understand he's lobbying for content aimed squarely at this top 10% or so of total population (with Mog it might be closer to 1%). My viewpoint is that you might never see the kind of content aimed at that 10% if you don't make that other 90% happy first. This game certainly lacks enough content to make anyone....hardcore or casual.....happy atm.

[DoctorMog]

Its more of an arbitrary % based on the usual quoted ratio of "Hardcore" to "Casual" players for any particular MMO population. Some games release the % of total population that clear content, or hit certain milestones and it usually hovers in the 5-10% range until they nerf the content for the masses.

While you can certainly have more content that is "tough", if you've read the OP and some of his/her other posts you'd certainly understand he's lobbying for content aimed squarely at this top 10% or so of total population (with Mog it might be closer to 1%). My viewpoint is that you might never see the kind of content aimed at that 10% if you don't make that other 90% happy first. This game certainly lacks enough content to make anyone....hardcore or casual.....happy atm.

I think you should re-read the OP,

I enjoy casual content as much as everyone else.

In fact I mentioned that I hope it does NOT retract from the casual content produced.

I simply want some content produced that IS a challenge because, at present, there is none.

Don't attempt to change the meaning of my words.

[Chiz]

I think you should re-read the OP,

I enjoy casual content as much as everyone else.

In fact I mentioned that I hope it does NOT retract from the casual content produced.

I simply want some content produced that IS a challenge because, at present, there is none.

Don't attempt to change the meaning of my words.

I haven't changed the meaning of your words in the slightest, its quite clear your post is calling for content meant for the chosen few rather than the unwashed masses. Whether you intend for it to detract from casual content or not is irrelevant as any efforts focused toward the hardcore players will inevitably take away from development time spent for casual gamers.

Like I said, SE needs to take care of the casual gamers first or it'll be you and your 7 buddies running "tough" content on an empty server dropping loot only NPCs are willing to buy. While it may be inconvenient for those of us who are hitting level cap on multiple classes and finding little to do, its still the best thing SE can do to ensure the long-term survival of this game.

[DoctorMog]

I haven't changed the meaning of your words in the slightest, its quite clear your post is calling for content meant for the chosen few rather than the unwashed masses. Whether you intend for it to detract from casual content or not is irrelevant as any efforts focused toward the hardcore players will inevitably take away from development time spent for casual gamers.

Like I said, SE needs to take care of the casual gamers first or it'll be you and your 7 buddies running "tough" content on an empty server dropping loot only NPCs are willing to buy. While it may be inconvenient for those of us who are hitting level cap on multiple classes and finding little to do, its still the best thing SE can do to ensure the long-term survival of this game.

A few things;

Difficult content is content anyone can do. Casual to hardcore. Don't assume casuals are stupid and cant complete difficult encounters.

With the number of likes my OP has, it is pretty clear that my "7 friends" is a much larger part of the population than you think looking for a challenge.

And finally, if they don't do SOMETHING that proposes a challenge, the playerbase looking for a challenge will eventually just move on to another game.

Losing the "hardcore" group is just as bad as losing the "casual" group. Without both, your game dies. Or you should have just made Hello Kitty online clones, because thats about what it becomes if there is 0 challenge.

[Chiz]

A few things;

Difficult content is content anyone can do. Casual to hardcore. Don't assume casuals are stupid and cant complete difficult encounters.

I didn't make any such assumption, but you've made the distinction repeatedly in both this thread and others that this "tough" content is not meant for "casuals". If it were, why disclaim and differentiate between the two in your OP?

So, thanks for reading. I must make a final note, and that is that I do not wish to take away from content for casual players. I hope this content can co-exist and not pull from what a casual player could accomplish. Maybe the same stats as another item, just looks different or something.

With the number of likes my OP has, it is pretty clear that my "7 friends" is a much larger part of the population than you think looking for a challenge.

There's 20 servers, looks like par for the course. All kidding aside we could get a thread going about this game needs ANY content and I'm sure it would get a lot more likes than this thread's call for "tough" content meant only for the few.

Oh wait, no need, we already know an overwhelming 37% of the playerbase identified Lack of Content as the #1 problem with this game back in January: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...98e4034b898102

And finally, if they don't do SOMETHING that proposes a challenge, the playerbase looking for a challenge will eventually just move on to another game.

I think its pretty clear they've already looked beyond us in their plans for salvaging this game. Whoever stays, that's great, but all of the changes to-date and their future roadmaps and time tables are clearly geared toward making the PS3 release a success rather than any attempt to save what's left of the PC Open Beta population of ~40K players.

Losing the "hardcore" group is just as bad as losing the "casual" group. Without both, your game dies. Or you should have just made Hello Kitty online clones, because thats about what it becomes if there is 0 challenge.

No, losing the casual group is clearly the worst scenario, as that's what pays the bills and the bulk of your development costs. While the hardcore group certainly gives the casual players something to aim for and keeps the high-end content relevant, you can't sustain a game that caters to such a small subset of the population. See: any successful MMO.

[Murugan]

No, losing the casual group is clearly the worst scenario, as that's what pays the bills and the bulk of your development costs. While the hardcore group certainly gives the casual players something to aim for and keeps the high-end content relevant, you can't sustain a game that caters to such a small subset of the population. See: any successful MMO.

XI was a successful MMO yet to many modern "casual players" it is extremely prohibitive to that kind of playstyle, more-so than any other MMO. In fact among "casuals" XI is often heralded as the great example of evil hardcore-ness.

You know what though I don't really care for this part of the discussion because any MMO that can't hold my attention I won't be playing. People have different definition of what it means to be casual or hardcore, unfortunately some people are under the unfortunate impression that it is "hardcore" to want a game which challenges you. I'd rather have a "failed game" than one catering exclusively to people who simply want to escape reality with a mindless distraction, they are implementing jump after all I personally think that should be enough to keep that whole demographic busy.

[options]

I haven't changed the meaning of your words in the slightest, its quite clear your post is calling for content meant for the chosen few rather than the unwashed masses. Whether you intend for it to detract from casual content or not is irrelevant as any efforts focused toward the hardcore players will inevitably take away from development time spent for casual gamers.

Like I said, SE needs to take care of the casual gamers first or it'll be you and your 7 buddies running "tough" content on an empty server dropping loot only NPCs are willing to buy. While it may be inconvenient for those of us who are hitting level cap on multiple classes and finding little to do, its still the best thing SE can do to ensure the long-term survival of this game.

I'm a casual player in my gamestyle, and i want what Doctormog wants. Why do these sort of strategies have to be for end game challenges? Throw them in lvl 20, 30, 40 dungs and this would make me squeal with delight. 45 minute fights tho, leave that for end game.

[Gukswar]

I haven't changed the meaning of your words in the slightest, its quite clear your post is calling for content meant for the chosen few rather than the unwashed masses. Whether you intend for it to detract from casual content or not is irrelevant as any efforts focused toward the hardcore players will inevitably take away from development time spent for casual gamers.

Like I said, SE needs to take care of the casual gamers first or it'll be you and your 7 buddies running "tough" content on an empty server dropping loot only NPCs are willing to buy. While it may be inconvenient for those of us who are hitting level cap on multiple classes and finding little to do, its still the best thing SE can do to ensure the long-term survival of this game.

Dude casual player's only has 20 minute to play a day not every month can they play- They have time to play games like Chest or- Dota on war craft for hence- A MMO is meant to be played by MULTI PLAYERS and requires time to do things- what's the point of playing multi player games if you don't have the time to play with multi players? or then if you do why do you want to turn a multi player game into a MINI party game? don't you rather play the XBox with your friends 4 player mode instead? and MMO who FOCUS more then 50% of their time for Causality played run out of business or has less population then MMO who focus on causality more then 50%. You see Every MMO succeeded at first because everything was base on MULTI PLAYERS and for players who has time to play it- Once they change the tactic turning everything into Casual style play or more then 40% then end up losing players and then the server becomes tiny. Se is trying to make everyone happy and by doing that they lost a bunch of players from the start of the game. NUMBER one mistake about THE BEST MMO OF the year since EQ was that they made everything easy and fast to do before they all ended up shutting down server and combining server because of lack of players. Besides players who doesn't have time to play Long term games... why do they bother? I sometimes have no time to play that is why I love Casual style, but even with casual style this game keeps you busy everyday until you reach 50 on all your jobs what do you want to do then? I've only level up my job casually and yet i'am almost 50 with all jobs ;/... I really think they should TAKE away all the free transportation and the anima. traveling through from limsa to grid then to coertheas take's 28 minute without anima.
TELEPORTING takes 2 second... (instead of anima they should of done it like FFXI where you'd need to get teleports from mages, then the game would actually take some time to level up and actually funner ways to level other then doing the same thing over and over and over and over....)

[odette]

Dude casual player's only has 20 minute to play a day not every month can they play- They have time to play games like Chest or- Dota on war craft for hence- A MMO is meant to be played by MULTI PLAYERS and requires time to do things- what's the point of playing multi player games if you don't have the time to play with multi players? or then if you do why do you want to turn a multi player game into a MINI party game? don't you rather play the XBox with your friends 4 player mode instead? and MMO who FOCUS more then 50% of their time for Causality played run out of business or has less population then MMO who focus on causality more then 50%. You see Every MMO succeeded at first because everything was base on MULTI PLAYERS and for players who has time to play it- Once they change the tactic turning everything into Casual style play or more then 40% then end up losing players and then the server becomes tiny. Se is trying to make everyone happy and by doing that they lost a bunch of players from the start of the game. NUMBER one mistake about THE BEST MMO OF the year since EQ was that they made everything easy and fast to do before they all ended up shutting down server and combining server because of lack of players. Besides players who doesn't have time to play Long term games... why do they bother? I sometimes have no time to play that is why I love Casual style, but even with casual style this game keeps you busy everyday until you reach 50 on all your jobs what do you want to do then? I've only level up my job casually and yet i'am almost 50 with all jobs ;/... I really think they should TAKE away all the free transportation and the anima. traveling through from limsa to grid then to coertheas take's 28 minute without anima.
TELEPORTING takes 2 second... (instead of anima they should of done it like FFXI where you'd need to get teleports from mages, then the game would actually take some time to level up and actually funner ways to level other then doing the same thing over and over and over and over....)

you are wrong, well you think casual content = just soloing
in wow casual and hardcore can do raids, the real differents are the difficult and reward
any wow raid is more tough that any hnm of ffxi

[Reaujien]

Its more of an arbitrary % based on the usual quoted ratio of "Hardcore" to "Casual" players for any particular MMO population. Some games release the % of total population that clear content, or hit certain milestones and it usually hovers in the 5-10% range until they nerf the content for the masses.

Why should SE make significant design changes based on arbitrary information though - especially when the basis of this arbitrary information is 100% subjective? The whole notion of "casual" vs. "hardcore" has the same definitions as "hot" vs. "cold". To some native Minnesotan's "hot" may be 85 degrees, and "cold" may be -45 degrees; however, to some Texans, perhaps, "hot" may be 115 degrees and "cold" may be 60 degrees. The same can be applied to any MMO - "casual" could mean playing only 5 hours per week, or it could mean playing only 3 days per week and still participating in "tough" or "easy" content. Conversely, "hardcore" could mean playing 7 days per week without regards to which specific activities such player is participating in, or it could mean being a part of a guild/LS/group/etc that requires a player to be more readily available and adhering to more stricter rules than the US Army. "Casual" vs. "hardcore" - 100% subjective; and I see no correlation between the two when considering what "level" of difficulty content should be.

While you can certainly have more content that is "tough", if you've read the OP and some of his/her other posts you'd certainly understand he's lobbying for content aimed squarely at this top 10% or so of total population (with Mog it might be closer to 1%). My viewpoint is that you might never see the kind of content aimed at that 10% if you don't make that other 90% happy first.

Your premise contradicts what you are proposing SE should do. You suggest that SE needs to first satisfy the "other-than-hardcore" 90% of the player population by implementing content that is "other-and-less-than-difficult", but you assert (arbitrarily, I would assume) that the range of difficulty of any given content should be measured by a function of how much of such content has been completed from the "hardcore" (sic) 5%-10% of the entire active player base. So how, then, should SE measure "toughness" of any content if they do not consider this arbitrary 10% which you suggest? Further, how does SE cater to this arbitrary 90% if they, in fact, don't first consider this arbitrary 10% "hardcore" player base?

This game certainly lacks enough content to make anyone....hardcore or casual.....happy atm.

Sorry, heh, that's 100% subjective... again.