Summoner Changes Compiled: Is there more?

[Crevox]

The new summoner abilities make it so I actually have to pay attention to what I'm doing now (balancing aether flows and attunements). Oh no, I actually have to use my brain before I go crazy with my class mechanics, and not blindly smash them whenever I want? The horror!.

None of what you said means it's good game design. Yes, it adds difficulty to the class, but for what reason? The DPS gain granted is marginal, and it hurts our freedom and ability to control our class in so many ways, again, making it a marginal increase at best in optimal situations, and easily a decrease if not used properly, regardless of whether or not you personally realize it. The ability could have easily added increased dps, more interesting gameplay, and make it feel fun and cool to be empowered by Bahamut without being so disruptive to our freedom/ability to control our DPS, but the way it is currently designed, that is not the case.

The instant you decide to hold off on dots in order to "prepare for it", or hold your cooldowns to sync up with it, or other things, you're going to lose DPS which in the long run will just be made up by the trance, if you're lucky. We lose movement (having to use Ruin III priority over Ruin II), we lose ability usage timings (having to go into trance), and we lose a large portion of our ability to dynamically adjust to fights and sync our timers with them. It also just implements huge traps for inexperienced (mostly) and experienced players alike. Using the trance incorrectly will result in a DPS loss, and using Ruin III after it has faded (if you are not paying attention to the timer very closely) will destroy your MP, and more. The entire ability just has so many bad quality of life elements attached to it.

You also stick a lot of words and thoughts into me that I never even stated.

The bahamut mechanic works with this game and expansion because

Yes, they can make it make sense from a lore standpoint, but that doesn't make it a good idea from a gameplay standpoint, at least the way they implemented it. As you already know, I completely understand how you are supposed to use it in order to be optimal, but again, that still does not make it "fun" or make it good quality of life. In the end, it's an opinion, and I feel like the ability could've been tweaked more to be more interesting and usable than how it is right now. It is extremely damaging to how we play and forces us to play a specific way, when before we had so much more freedom and were about to adjust based on the fight.

If you don't understand the game design concept of "quality of life", then you will not understand what I'm trying to say. If you do not push Summoner DPS to the limit like I do (and understand theorycrafting DPS etc), then you also will not understand. That's fine, but there's no need to insult my opinion just because you disagree.

They already said at one point that they are adding more pets skills.

They said they are not doing this after changing their mind.

There's apparently plans for a pet glamour type system also.

This has nothing to do with my post.

Hopefully this doesn't get derailed any further.

Discussing Summoner changes in a thread about summoner changes is not derailing a thread.

[Spellbinder]

Discussing Summoner changes in a thread about summoner changes is not derailing a thread.

Not to put words in the mouth of the original poster, but I was under the assumption that this thread's purpose was to document what changes and additions have been made to summoner since the patch notes weren't exactly forthcoming with information.

Your tit for tat with Zanther sounds like it'd be better suited in "Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide" or separate thread entirely.

Not trying to start anything, just letting you know why I think it's a derailment.

[Zanther]

snip

Again. 1005 disagree. Everything you listed is reasons why these are good changes. The class went from "refresh dots, spam ruin" to having actual class mechanics that require you to think before you start slamming keys.


And it seems like SE likes deleting my post. I must have hurt someones feelings (not implying it was you).

Your tit for tat with Zanther sounds like it'd be better suited in "Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide" or separate thread entirely.

Not trying to start anything, just letting you know why I think it's a derailment.

Except its not derailment. We're not talking about improving our dps here, we're talking about the changes made (in a topic about the changes), which is exactly what the thread is about.

[Havenchild]

Again. 1005 disagree. Everything you listed is reasons why these are good changes. The class went from "refresh dots, spam ruin" to having actual class mechanics that require you to think before you start slamming keys.

After hitting 60, I can definitely say, I am having trouble finding the correct route to maximizing DWT. Some people have chosen largely to just refresh whatever skills needed in DWT and just Ruin III for any filler, which any decently skilled SMN can do with ease as it's essentially playing as normal and just activating DWT as a passive to fire off Deathflare soon after. However, I definitely feel there is more to maximizing this skill and it's usage starting right after the first DWT is used in the opener.

Your rotation also will become fundamentally different depending on Ifrit or Garuda when trying to maximize DWT from what I can see as well. How you balance other skills along side it also seems to add a lot into it.

You mention how it was a "refresh dots, spam ruin" class before, but there were still several elements within that simpleness you had to think about constantly especially when managing AF usage, to keep your DPS up especially when you use Ifrit on Obey + skill usage. DWT does definitely add a new level onto the class if we are talking about maximizing on SMN, which was already a top contender for most difficult to maximize on.

While I am certainly grateful to the many fixes that came to the class, DWT just took the class another step further into separating the good from the bad SMNs. TBH, I can't blame anyone who would get upset with it. Throwing mechanics into the mix, while also having to plan the usage of DWT, Aetherflow, Tri-Disaster use, Pet skills, and all timers both on DoTs and Aetherial Stacks, is a lot to juggle simultaneously, effectively.