Tank DPS Ranking prediction.

[Tila]

Oh look, you and everyone else in this thread was wrong. Imagine that. Not the first time I've been right, not the last time, and certainly not among a few.

Warrior dps is very high at the moment. Their survivability is just as good as Paladin, their Parry Buff is FAR superior than Sheltron.

Hey, you heard it here first, and you'll hear it here last. I was right.

Parry is also a really crappy damage mitigator. Why do people treat it like its a big deal? Pretty much a poor mans shield.

[Sleigh]

From what I'm seeing in endgame so far, but by NO MEANS anything too concrete:

MT DPS in tank stance: WAR > DRK > PLD
OT DPS: WAR > IDK, I've seen disturbing numbers so far. 950 at 3:30, which is too close to DPS, and they have infinite TP ...
Survivability wise against physical things (not counting debuffs the tanks apply): PLD > WAR > DRK
Survivability against lots of magic: DRK > WAR/PLD
Survivability overall with constant tank busters (like T5): WAR > PLD > DRK
Survivability with far apart tank busters: PLD > DRK/WAR
Survivability by just existing and doing combos: PLD > WAR > DRK (Sorry, IB being used constantly > HP drain IMO)
Debuff importance: WAR >>> PLD >>> DRK (unless no MNK party and then it's below WAR, above PLD)

Combos of tanks and what general survivability I speculate the MT of the pair would have (based on CDs + debuffs each tank brings):

PLD MT + WAR OT > DRK MT + WAR OT > WAR MT + PLD OT > PLD MT + DRK OT > DRK MT + PLD OT > WAR MT + DRK OT (aka probably the worst survivability I think you can get unless you stack the same tank in a comp, it's literally just having a WAR solo)

Right now, if I had to speculate, and obviously I am speculating right now, DRK MT + WAR OT and PLD + WAR in either role of OT/MT are the safest bets for comps. I would not bring DRK as OT if it can be helped, nor would I bring DRK MT + PLD OT because you lose that sweet, sweet Path/Eye.

[Reynhart]

Oh look, you and everyone else in this thread was wrong. Imagine that. Not the first time I've been right, not the last time, and certainly not among a few.

Warrior dps is very high at the moment. Their survivability is just as good as Paladin, their Parry Buff is FAR superior than Sheltron.

Hey, you heard it here first, and you'll hear it here last. I was right.

Wow, I've never seen such a decisive argument : "You're wrong because I'm right".
Again, live in you dream, buddy.

[Faytte]

Wow, I've never seen such a decisive argument : "You're wrong because I'm right".
Again, live in you dream, buddy.

This. Parry is not that good anymore. Its a flat 20% reduction on things that can be parried. Sheltron works off a shields block strength, which with kite shields even now is about 30% and will increase as the expansion goes. This is all that matters for tank busters, and its 30 second cd means it can be up for EVERY TANK BUSTER.

You need to understand how critical that is, basically paladins just got a 30% damage reducer for every tank buster given they all (save akh morn)

[Reynhart]

You need to understand how critical that is, basically paladins just got a 30% damage reducer for every tank buster given they all (save akh morn)

Ah, yes, Akh Morn...Isn't that the move where PLD need to cover WAR just after they hit a bunch of them with holmgang to not die by the following auto-attack...whereas PLD will eat them like cornflakes with 0 damage ?

[Reynhart]

Their survivability is just as good as Paladin, their Parry Buff is FAR superior than Sheltron.

Ok, you'll probably ignore that post, but whatever, here's where you're wrong.

Mitigation skills need to be compared either by cooldown or duration. Like you said yourself :

FFXIV tanking rotations revolved around big, predictable, mitigatable hits.

So, basically, duration is not a big problem there.

So, cooldown ? Raw Intuition...90s, Sheltron...30s. Is it basic enough math ?
Well, in fact, Sheltron is not the PLD equivalent of Raw Intuition. It's the equivalent of Inner Beast, as they're both "pop it at will to reduce one hit".

Bulwark is the equivalent of WAR Raw Intuition. So, is Raw Intuition better ? Yes, on paper, it is. Shorter cooldown, and more reliable. During fights ? Well, it stills have shorter cooldown, but in the whole rotation, both tank can have their coolwdowns when they're needed. As for the "reliable" part, Raw Intuition is also better, but the difference is slight at best, since Bulwark is added upon the natural blocking rate, which is already decent, depending on the shield.

For the mitigation part, although, recent Parry test puts it at a flat 20%, exactly like Inner Beast, whereas block scales with shield and level, but stays consistenly higher than that.

So, now that Inner Beast and Raw Intuition got their equivalent, what do we have ?
Defiance for Shield Oath : So close that it doesn't really matter.
Vengeance for Rampart and/or Sentinel. Vengeance is exactly mid-way through both with better mitigation but longer cooldwon than Rampart and lesser mitigation but shorter cooldown than Sentinel.
For once, let's look at "average" mitigation.
Vengeance : (30/180)*30% is 3.75%
Rampart : (20/90)*20% is 4.44%
So, on average, Rempart is better.

Then, you have Thrill Of Battle. It gives you 20% more HP whereas Sentinel reduces damage by 40%. In terms of eHP, thats 120% against 166% (Since they both have the same eHP when comparing Defiance and Shield Oath)

As for Halloweg Ground vs Holmgang : Hallowed Ground negates all incoming damage, meaning that healers don't need to do anything for the duration and doesn't stress them once the cooldown ends. Whereas Holmgang makes you die in one hit once its down.
Holmgang as a much shorter cooldown, but, for the moment, there's no fight that "requires" several Hallowed Ground of Holmgang to makes it really matter.

[Brian_]

Oh look, you and everyone else in this thread was wrong. Imagine that. Not the first time I've been right, not the last time, and certainly not among a few.

Warrior dps is very high at the moment. Their survivability is just as good as Paladin, their Parry Buff is FAR superior than Sheltron.

Hey, you heard it here first, and you'll hear it here last. I was right.

You know why every tank that knew what they were doing dropped all parry rating from their gear? Because parry sucks.

The tank damage that matters in this game comes in bursts. You can't rely on a low% parry to mitigate those bursts. You need guaranteed mitigation. And, healers don't heal reactively. They heal proactively. They are healing you for the same amount regardless of if you parry or not. If you rely on parry to save you, you're doing it wrong.

So you're comparing something that is near worthless to something that is ideal for the game's encounter design.

[Faytte]

Paladins are the mitigation kings. Warriors are not close (and in fact, Drk's are even further behind).

And while a warriors dps when OT in deliverance -is- very impressive, if you are mting you are dropping out of vengeance to do that (which when ytou go back in, does not auto heal you for the extra health, you basically dealt that damage to yourself the healers need to top back off) and wasted mitigation from IB.

Royal authority (340 potency attack we can spam every 3rd gcd) and Goring Blade combined damage is quite spectacular. Fracture (with war trait) ends up being 270-300 potency ( server dot ticks). Goring Blade is 20 tp cheaper and is 500-540. Yeah you read that right--over 24 seconds, it hits as hard as a fell cleave does (not taking in mind damage amplifying buffs, but we are also talking about a COMBO power vs something that takes 8 GCDS to charge up).

Paladin burst will never touch a war, but sustain isnt as different as you might expect.

[Launched]

You know why every tank that knew what they were doing dropped all parry rating from their gear? Because parry sucks.

Parry is also a really crappy damage mitigator. Why do people treat it like its a big deal? Pretty much a poor mans shield.

Parry as a STAT is worthless because it's complete RNG, just like block. Parry on Raw Intuition is GUARANTEED, meaning it's a physical-only Rampart. There's a huge difference.

[Jandor]

1. Dark Knight
2. Paladin
3. Warrior

I base my rankings on how Warriors seem to have taken a level in loud obnoxious boasting since the expansion, they were always much more vocal about how super duper fantastic they are but recently it's got to the point where it's suspicious. Like they're overcompensating for something...