Bard is utterly destroyed

[Warlyx]

we need to get AA back in WM (same goes for MCH) , and let us use Bloodletter even when casting other skills....and there u go :P

[The_Last_Dragoon]

Has anyone legitimately tested how well auto-attacks scale now for Bards? I keep getting told that they nerfed auto-attacks, and the fact that Barrage no longer affects them they no longer make up such a large portion of our dps, especially now that we have a 240 potency attack that can occur every 15 seconds, a 350 potency attack that can occur every 60 seconds, and making the upkeep on DoTs only take a single gcd instead of two. Keep in mind that WM is a permanent Raging Strikes buff that stacks with Raging Strikes, so yes, our burst is absolutely crazy right now. The reason why people are questioning it's validity is because a lot of Bards no longer know their rotation, and instead are perfectly comfortable using the 2.X rotation and completely ignoring all of the new abilities (Except the new Sidewinder which I assure you is going to get fixed).

I could legitimately see them either raising the damage bonus on WM to 25 or even 30% or nerfing auto-attacks hard if they haven't already so that people are forced to use the new abilities. The point is, that this is a new way to play, and if you're not willing to adapt to the major changes in the class then you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that you're not optimizing your class and people will begin to start calling you out on it. I don't care if they suddenly add in a new Bard Song next expansion that requires you to be within melee range of the enemy, I will always main Bard and I'm willing to adapt to the changes.

[Tharian]

no longer can we have the option to use Wide Volley in order to make Rain of Death free which also could have made Quick Nock free.

I would like to point out that since Rain of Death is now an Off Global Cooldown Ability it is automatically free. If you are suffering because you normally had Bloodletter macroed to just about everything all you really need to do is switch it so that Bloodletter is macroed to your single target abilities while Rain of Death is macroed to your AoE abilities and presto, no more DPS Loss.

Yes you lose the ability to have a free Quick Nock, but honestly that ability is situational in the extreme considering how close to the enemy you actually have to be to utilize it properly.

As for your complaints about Wanderer's Minuet? You do realize you aren't actually required to utilize it? Sure, some groups may get pissed at you if you don't utilize it on occasion, but there is nothing actually requiring you to make use of it.

[Ooshima]

Did dummy parses with and without WM. The numbers proved to be similar, within 10DPS range. Checked with another bard who did the same, our similar results.

I can see reasons why, but as of now I do not think that WM is a long term stance to go. Should only be switched when bursts are needed or during phase changes where you can turn it on during down time and burst it on the boss when its back, etc.

[Seifa]

I'm engaged on a discussion with another bard on reddit right now and the difference between perma WM and only Opener Barrage WM on a 2:40 min dummy fight i parsed was by 2 dps, with WM coming on top.

In a real scenario, we won't be able to stand still for that long and need to move out of the way a lot more often by making the Barrage EA then autos the more reliable rotation, in my opinion.

Still, WM isn't what developers advertised to us: the standard stance to use to maximize dps to drop only when there is high movement to do.... or maybe it is, since most of the fights required me to move out of the way every 10-20 seconds <.<

[JovianTheCool]

Rui, mind sharing your numbers? I think I need a benchmark to work towards to. For MCH, it's still a DPS increase to stay in Gauss Barrel than out of it. I'm sure it's the same for bard as well.

[peekashu]

Bard isn't by any chance a bad class now. It's just disappointing to get to lvl 60 and find yourself getting skills that aren't fun neither good to use. I've done Bismarck EX and progressing through Ravana EX and I find myself playing the same I used to play before. Tried those fights using WM all the time and/or only for a few timed burst damage and I found myself doing less DPS.

To summary this expansion for players who plays Bard seeking endgame content: boring, but still relevant.

[Ooshima]

I'm engaged on a discussion with another bard on reddit right now and the difference between perma WM and only Opener Barrage WM on a 2:40 min dummy fight i parsed was by 2 dps, with WM coming on top.

In a real scenario, we won't be able to stand still for that long and need to move out of the way a lot more often by making the Barrage EA then autos the more reliable rotation, in my opinion.

Which is what BRDs are starting to conclude at. The difference between perma WM and normal rotation comes so close you can say that they are identical.

The only difference there that I have noticed that I intentionally do not use Invigorate until I get to the point that 1 more GCD and I will get starved - Perma WM mode utilizing Iron Jaws when you should (IJ isn't always to get go to refresh DoTs) lasts me approximately 20s longer.

All in all I don't see the benefits of perm WM. So I guess WM is really on a burst-required basis. Or at times like all the stars in the sky lines up (ie all CDs synced, especially with pots) then that mother of god 2.7K-3K per hit EA + 5.5K SW crit is well worth it.

Rui, mind sharing your numbers? I think I need a benchmark to work towards to. For MCH, it's still a DPS increase to stay in Gauss Barrel than out of it. I'm sure it's the same for bard as well.

IDK about machinist but honestly as a BRD, if your perma WM mode is higher than your normal BRD mode then I am pretty sure back in FCoB you must have been dealing sub-par DPS as a BRD (not saying you, but in general).

I haven't ran enough runs since I've only bothered to re-DL ACT last night at around 4am and was rather sleepy. 3 runs of WM and without WM, no food/party/buff, numbers range from 780-800 for 3 mins exact. Probably will do more parses once I get my full set gear and Ravana EX weapon.

[FateAudax]

I think some people are missing the point. One of the main reason that a certain number of players chose to main bard is for their mobility.
Most players who have been playing bard till now should have accepted that their DPS will never be on par with the likes of BLM, SMN, MNK, DRG and NIN. No matter what you argue, Bard's weapon damage is always significantly lower even compared to BLM.


So if your argument is the change which adds cast time is to allow bard to catch up with the caster class, then my obvious question would be "shouldn't Bard's weapon damage the first thing SE should have looked at?".

By adding the totally pointless Wanderer's Minuet, not only did SE totally changed the way the class is played (made into bow wizards) but also hit the class hard with a nerf (lowest weapon damage amongst the available classes) by changing the way Barrage works (if some of us chose to not play WM style).

I may not know how it all began when SE designed the Bard class but I can probably safely say they look and said "so we have our generic melee (tank & dps) and caster (healer & dps).. now we just need the generic ranged dps for variety". As with all MMO, there will always be the melee class, the caster class and the physical ranged class. Not to sound entitled but some of us Bard players have invested 2 years in both time and money into our class, it isn't fair that SE overhauled our class like this. If some of us Bard players wanted a class which requires to be rooted to cast a skill, we would've chose the superior dps BLM or SMN (in HW's case).

I would like to highlight again that some of us chose to play Bard due to the mobility which we find that it is fun to move while attacking from far. We love that even though our dps may be the lowest amongst the dps classes. So don't take that away from us.

[JovianTheCool]

Thanks Rui, I don't have a 60 BRD yet, so I can't judge. I'm pretty sad by MCH's numbers at this point though.

780-800 for 3 mins without Minuet? Yea, let me get some practice in and test. From my initial testing last night, i'm about 60-80 dps lower than the numbers with GB.

For MCH, if you're not in GB, you'll be losing 200 potency every 20 seconds and 400 potency every min which adds up to 1000 potency every minute and they're off-GCD. Need to do more testing to see if Auto-attacks can make up for that. Furthermore unlike BRD, MCH can actually move if there are procs in GB just like BLM.