New glamour dress on a male (art)

[ValkyrieL]

Not this again.

[Radacci]

If I'm not mistaking with this glamour outfit unlocked for female char at exp. it'll make 16 more gear pieces for female than male.

If they have the money to make XYZ for females they have no reason to not make XYZ for males too.
No matter if you play as a female or a male character, you pay the same price for the game, nowhere did they specify that one of those two will always be the one to get bonus stuff.

by xyz i meant making different versions of a piece, to fit male/female/race, instead of just a female set.

hmm i wouldn't count 16 seperate pieces, that's like complaining about Haerkladi or those caster robes, being 1 piece.
isn't the problem that male exclusive gear have been removed, which makes it seem like they added more female exclusive gear?
and in case of gambler vs bunny, they are really different, which makes mostly female chars complain they can't have gambler; how many males are complaining they can't have bunny dress, though?
and what does it matter if you have 90 male sets to choose from, instead of 100 female? you're not gonna use all of them anyway. so i still don't understand why ppl are so up in flames about females having more options.
i'm not saying they shouldn't add more options though, it's always good with more options, but meh, what's the big deal?

[Gramul]

I've said it before but it doesn't matter why it stirs up duress in people, it only matters that it does.
This thread is 40 pages of people arguing why or why not men should be able to wear dresses. Specifically, one of the most feminine dresses (by STANDARD Japanese and STANDARD North American, I can't speak for Europe, societal perceptions of masculinity and femininity) the development team has ever come up with.
It doesn't matter whether WE like it or not. It only matters if doing so would cause more problems than not doing so.
The very fact that there is even a point of contention is likely their reason for avoiding the issue in the first place. Which is a VERY Japanese thing to do.
Again, the "Why" is not important. Only the fact that you have to ask why in the first place is important.
"But why is it ok for women to be wearing the masculine outfits?" you ask.
For the opposite reason: They would catch more heat for keeping the outfits locked to men than they would for making them wearable by both genders.
There's also one simple, irrefutable fact: In Japan and America, if a woman walks into work one day wearing pants and the next a skirt, no one will say a word.
If a man walks in wearing a skirt, he attracts attention. It may be as simple as some co-workers laughing about it around the water cooler, or it could be as bad as getting called into the boss's office. And drawing attention to yourself in Japanese culture in such a way is frowned upon.
You may not like it, and to be honest I'm not happy about it either, but this is simply reality.

That's not enough to satisfy me. "It just upsets people" is too weak of an argument. It ignores the core base on why it happens. And if I don't know why, how can I be expected to accept it?

Standards change. People change. Just saying "It is what it is and we just comply to it" just comes off as flippant and dismissive.

The only reason I keep posting in this thread is because I want to know why. Why does deviating from that standard cause distress? Why is that standard apparently so ironclad? That's what I don't understand and that's why I can't accept the answer you provide.

Earlier I said:

It's just an unwritten social contract on what we expect to be acceptable for our own time and culture. The only strength it has is people's compliance with it as it stands.

And it seems you're just saying we should comply with it... because it's a social standard. Which just makes it stronger as a standard. That's a bit of a slippery slope.

[DarkDedede]

If a man walks in wearing a skirt, he attracts attention. It may be as simple as some co-workers laughing about it around the water cooler, or it could be as bad as getting called into the boss's office. And drawing attention to yourself in Japanese culture in such a way is frowned upon.
You may not like it, and to be honest I'm not happy about it either, but this is simply reality.

Why are you even comparing real world office life to fictional fantasy adventurer life? As civil and "well thought out" as your examples may be, it really is an utterly invalid comparison. You may as well compare game life, with the social mating etiquette of American and Japanese sea life. I'm sure there are noticeable differences in that comparison too, but they wouldn't really apply to the current issue either.


Now, let's apply your logic into the context of the actual game. If a male character enters a DF group in traditional armor, no one will "say a word." If that same character enters a DF glamoured completely in their underwear, no one will "say a word." If that same character were to enter a DF in a wedding dress, I'd say it's a safe bet no one would even care if it were a male or a female.

Yes, were this the real world, a man in a dress would get some looks. However in the game world, a "man" can walk around with a great axe, and would most likely not even get looked at. In game world fantasy terms, I really doubt anyone would want to mess with the man with the great axe, even if he were wearing a more feminine outfit. By most fictional character standards, those are the characters you really wouldn't want to mess with. Plus, I really doubt that many people, even you, would pay enough attention to even care if there's a male character in gear designed primarily for females.

Besides, I really doubt social "whatever-you-may-call-it" really plays that much of a factor into why there are these gender specific gear rules, especially in a game that allows same gender unions.

[Ymal]

and what does it matter if you have 90 male sets to choose from, instead of 100 female? you're not gonna use all of them anyway. so i still don't understand why ppl are so up in flames about females having more options.
i'm not saying they shouldn't add more options though, it's always good with more options, but meh, what's the big deal?

Apparently you really don't get it, two people pay the same amount of money each months but only one of them get more glamour options. It's only normal that the side that get less gets annoyed at one point.

You said yourself that you hate having to glamour something so I want to say that of course it's not a matter for you. But it's important for me and a lot of other people, otherwise we wouldn't bother making thread like this each time we get left behind in content that is important for us.

You asked me how many more gear females could wear compared to males and I answered you, after that I don't care if you prefer to count them as gear set or whatever you said, I personally didn't understood what you tried to say there, the only thing is that there are too many gear that are locked to one side of the community without any real reason.

[Noxifer]

isn't the problem that male exclusive gear have been removed, which makes it seem like they added more female exclusive gear?

That is... pretty much the same thing.

By making it Female+Unisex instead of Female+Male, females DO get more female-exclusive gear than males get male-exclusive gear.

[Uielyave]

I'd love to have Rahn'a and my other characters in dancer outfits like this. I hate to tell you guys, but MALE BELLY DANCERS DO EXIST, you can dress feminine and still be male. You're not cross dressing when you're attempting to appear beautiful and appealing. Saying clothing is for ONLY either gender is kinda silly these days. Especially in a fantasy realm where i'm POSITIVE that male dancers would exist. Tribal miqo'te would probably wear dancer outfits during celebrations, be they male or female.
Don't think of the dress as a "Girl's outfit", think of it as an "Ul'dahn dancer's Outfit", which would be a Unisex thing. Just because you don't see them right now, doesn't mean they don't exist.
I want the dress on my male characters as much as everyone else, and this is coming from a female playing male characters! Let them all be unisex!

[kyuven]

Why are you even comparing real world office life to fictional fantasy adventurer life? As civil and "well thought out" as your examples may be, it really is an utterly invalid comparison. You may as well compare game life, with the social mating etiquette of American and Japanese sea life. I'm sure there are noticeable differences in that comparison too, but they wouldn't really apply to the current issue either.

You missed the point. It's not about how the players within the game see each other. We don't care, by and large.
It's how the people OUTSIDE the game see it.
The people reviewing resumes of the artists that designed the outfits.
The stockholders and bosses looking at the game.
The very, VERY vicious Japanese media looking for something to write a derisive article about on a slow news day.
Remember, there are games out there that get a bad rap for actions you CAN take in the game (such as your ability to mow down civilians in games like GTA and the Elder scrolls games, despite most of the actual story of the game not directing you to do such) that aren't even close to the focus.
So again, it has nothing to do with the players of the game, it has to do with those NOT playing the game that either have big wallets or loud mouths (or both)
Something REMOTELY controversial in Japan can torpedo your company's stock prices.
When Ayumi Hamasaki, a famous Japanese singer, had to announce that she was going deaf in one ear, the stock price for her company shot down like a rocket.

[Miya_Carbuncle]

You missed the point. It's not about how the players within the game see each other. We don't care, by and large.
It's how the people OUTSIDE the game see it.
The people reviewing resumes of the artists that designed the outfits.
The stockholders and bosses looking at the game.
The very, VERY vicious Japanese media looking for something to write a derisive article about on a slow news day.
Remember, there are games out there that get a bad rap for actions you CAN take in the game (such as your ability to mow down civilians in games like GTA and the Elder scrolls games, despite most of the actual story of the game not directing you to do such) that aren't even close to the focus.
So again, it has nothing to do with the players of the game, it has to do with those NOT playing the game that either have big wallets or loud mouths (or both)
Something REMOTELY controversial in Japan can torpedo your company's stock prices.
When Ayumi Hamasaki, a famous Japanese singer, had to announce that she was going deaf in one ear, the stock price for her company shot down like a rocket.

I hate when great posts like these are posted at the bottom of the page. It's just going to get buried and forgotten.

Thanks for bringing up a brand new perspective and writing it in such a way that's easy to understand.

Though I also want to point out that a lot of big games and such in Japan feature male characters in very feminine outfits (like in previous FF games), so I don't think it'd be all that much of a risk. But I don't live in Japan so... *shrug*

[Aeyis]

I hate when great posts like these are posted at the bottom of the page. It's just going to get buried and forgotten.

Thanks for bringing up a brand new perspective and writing it in such a way that's easy to understand.

Though I also want to point out that a lot of big games and such in Japan feature male characters in very feminine outfits (like in previous FF games), so I don't think it'd be all that much of a risk. But I don't live in Japan so... *shrug*

It's a very biased perspective tho. I'd almost ask why Kyuven took a studie in Japanese considering how negative the average statement from Kyuven is, but I already know the answer. Because the past Japan no doubt, not the current one.
Ofcourse thats just a presumption.

[sarcasme]@ Kyuven: Im guessing your most treasured ffxiv possession is a bunny kabuto[/sarcasme]