New glamour dress on a male (art)

[Noxifer]

That's hyperbole, and a fallacy to boot.
Again, we're talking cost-benefit here. If they add the blue outfit for males and females, females will actually wear it (the pants look nice) as evidenced even now by the large number of female character's in the Best Man's attire (especially the shoes, which are quite popular as they go with a lot of other outfits). In contrast, there are not that many male characters choosing to glamour the Flame Elite's Loincloth or the spring skirt. (which I'd like to point out, came out BEFORE this gender-locking thing became an issue)

But while this thread is focused on showcasing that the female variety of this outfit would work on the male body, the issue is just what I said: Women get more outfits than men. Which is not equality. I didn't mean to imply it's 100% comparable with loot drops; I used it to illustrate that if you put the same equality into other systems, it becomes obvious that it's not fair. Why is it then not obvious now that it's not fair and should be corrected?

I would totally wear the Elite Loincloth..... if it wasn't locked to the Immortal Flames. I'm not going to change GC just for one piece of gear, when Maelstrom has more pieces that I like as well as the colour scheme I favour (black and red). I do use the plain long skirt for glamours, but I also switch glamours regularly -- currently the skirt's on my caster glamour together with the felt bliaud. Unfortunately, caster's my least favourite dps class, so I rarely get to show it off other than to social events (bonding ceremonies etc).

The gender-locking was an issue before that, btw. It was an issue when they released the spring dress set and the sailor set, and the comment was made that the sailor set was supposed to be male-only, but someone on the dev team said, "But it'd look so cute on girls! Let's make it unisex!" People just didn't cry out as vehemently back then because most people figured that once was acceptable, but it's happened again and again and people are tired of it.

It feels like you want to break down and change societal norms over a bellydancer costume.
Yeah that ain't happening, sorry. Gotta do something a bit more ambitious and play the long game to change societal perceptions.

... my opinions are not a result of this thread. My participation in this thread is due to my opinions. Get your order right, please.
And my opinion is that all these instances of "girls can wear masculine outfits, boys can't wear feminine outfits", where some people invariably make the assumption that in order for a boy to wear a skirt he has to be either transgender or gay, enforce the gender roles and also continue to enforce the notion that women are somehow not as good as men.
Yes, I know that sounds contradictory, but if you think about it... Why can't men wear feminine outfits without being ridiculed or harrassed? Because they're seen as less than men. Because to acknowledge the femininity inside you (not wanting to be a woman, but enjoying "softer" touches in your life) means to be weak. "You're not a girl, are you?" "Boys don't cry." "Man up."
*shrugs*

[DarkDedede]

I've been keeping quiet. Mostly because, I don't mind the suggestion. But seriously, the chest cloth just... no. Why? It just looks tacky on men and removes one of the biggest parts of sex appeal to men in skimpy clothing, their chests. Most women (and men) would prefer to see men wearing this sort of clothing with just the skirt and detached sleeves. Having the chest cloth removes a key component of the inherent sexuality in the outfit. So, yes. Please, adjust most of this outfit to fit men, just redesign the chest so it's a bare chest with some gold jewelry and detached sleeves.

Not everyone wants to design their character so that it's more convenient for you, or anyone else, to personally ogle at. I really don't see how your personal taste should dictate how others should dress their character. Besides, I'm sure there are plenty of barechested male characters running around to keep you more than satisfied.

There are plenty of things people do now that I find tacky, and this example would not be my first choice to glamour my characters (male or female). However, you won't see me shaking my finger or cane at anyone that doesn't dress to my personal taste.

There are people out there that would like more options than what is currently available to them. I really don't see the issue here. The only real potential issue that I see would be if the devs don't want to put the resources into fitting the outfit for male models. Of course, if there is sufficient demand, I see no reason for them not to.

[Radacci]

Idk does making X gear cost them more than making Y gear? Especially when talking about a gear set that is given to the players and not in cash shop? Those thread are getting a lot of support, and as I said SE has released a lot of gear that people happen to find ugly in general and that people never use.
I don't see them lose money with giving male the same amount of gear as they make for female, which is something that a lot of people have been asking for for what a year now at least. Unless you go on and tell me it's because men don't care about their appearance?
I really don't think you can predict what people are going to like just because of their gender or not...

You guys keep acting as if SE had NEVER released any feminine gear for males in the game, am I going to have to make a list of how many skirts my character can wear or what?

no, but making XYZ instead of just X, does cost more.
the only gear i can think of that is close to being feminine, is the flame loincloth...and it's not really. Plain long skirt certainly isn't, and neither is the demon skirts, flame skirt, serpent loincloth.
it's not fem just cause it's a skirt. I'd wanna see more kilts, and such, for guys.
how much more gear does female get, than male? and why are ppl acting so entitled about it anyway? as i said before (and it's kind of just my opinion) but there's not really any male-specific clothes...except maybe jockstraps; so what other male specific gear, does ppl want anyway?
I think ppl would be ok with more unisex skirts/dresses, or different versions for male/female. I'm just assuming that most ppl just dont want their male chars to wear princess peach skirt/dress.

[SpiritMuse]

Of course, most boys are going to choose male-labeled clothing and male-labeled toys and games. Because just like girls get told they're not real girls unless they like pink dresses and makeup (sometimes outright, sometimes merely through looks and genderdirected advertisements), boys get told they're not real boys if they like to play house or cook or wear skirts. Or, gods forbid, like pink.

Exactly. We mustn't forget how aggressively toys are gender-segregated in stores and advertisements. I'm hearing so many stories of boys and girls being disappointed because the toy they want is in the other section and therefore "not for them". Boys may mostly choose boys' toys and girls girls' toys but they're not making these choices in a vacuum.

[Aeyis]

That's hyperbole, and a fallacy to boot.

I dont see the fallacy.

In contrast, there are not that many male characters choosing to glamour the Flame Elite's Loincloth or the spring skirt. (which I'd like to point out, came out BEFORE this gender-locking thing became an issue) Yes, there are people who do, but they are GROSSLY outnumbered by the number of male characters running around in other outfits up to and including the coeurl bathing suit and nothing else.

Actually, I would have loved to glamour the spring skirt, but guess what? Its female only.


You might be thinking of the plain long skirt, which looks more then a bit different. (and looks really awkward with a lot of chest pieces, on male and female alike) Unless your trying to go for a certain look (student of kendo/ kyudo) its not something your likely to glamour, regardless of character gender.

Thus, it makes sense to make the male outfit available for both genders, but the cost of making the female one available for both genders is simply not worth it.



Preach on.

What you said is easily refutable. I dont see how its ''not worth it'' to make equivalents for both genders. After all, they already have to make some adjustments for different racial models. Altho whether its truly needed to do so, or whether they bother remains to be seen, as lalas are a very good example of.

It feels like you want to break down and change societal norms over a bellydancer costume.
Yeah that ain't happening, sorry. Gotta do something a bit more ambitious and play the long game to change societal perceptions.

Change them? What does that have to do with providing a simple character customization option?
Societal preconceptions are certainly an issue here, as displayed by some replies in this thread, but they have little to do with adding the option itself. Either they do or they dont. If they do make items available for both genders I dont see what sort of ''change'' that would bring in societal perceptions.

Is this personal to you or something? How does it negatively effect you?

Specifically, one of the most feminine dresses (by STANDARD Japanese and STANDARD North American, I can't speak for Europe, societal perceptions of masculinity and femininity)

Funny you mention that, because the design of the dress isnt based on anything remotely north american or japanese. I can definately see a noble of a sort in a hot country (think desert) wear that.

[Ymal]

no, but making XYZ instead of just X, does cost more.
how much more gear does female get, than male? and why are ppl acting so entitled about it anyway?

If I'm not mistaking with this glamour outfit unlocked for female char at exp. it'll make 16 more gear pieces for female than male.

If they have the money to make XYZ for females they have no reason to not make XYZ for males too.
No matter if you play as a female or a male character, you pay the same price for the game, nowhere did they specify that one of those two will always be the one to get bonus stuff.

[Kathryn]

This has all changed into petty Bickering they should restrict the gender clothing to appropriate gender so there is differences between the gender's now because this thread is getting rediculous and long.

Personally I am a female and I play a female toon and NO I don't glamour male clothing onto my character because it looks odd to me so not all women use the current unrestricted male clothing.

[Samcaesar]

Snip.

Not going to happen and there's no logic in not making the darn sets avaliable to both. They're not going to post-release change the sets and I doubt in the future they're going to make only girl and only guy sets (probably only the former if the lack of a dev response is anything to go by). It's not bickering, folks genuinely want to be able to wear the "female only" sets on their male characters, others object so they have to pull themselves back in and explain themselves and ask why not.

Cool, I'm a girl and love using the suits and other unrestricted "male" clothing. Thanks for contributing to the bickering.

[Leafmane]

I'm just going to stick my nose in here... I support either abolishing gender restricted clothing, or making it so guys and girls have an equal number of gender locked options. Someone argued that men don't wear things like the best man's suit. When that outfit came out EVERYONE was wearing it. I simply didnt want to wear an outfit that 400000000 girls were wearing around. I would love to wear some gender only clothes, but there isnt much in the way of options. Also I find the fascination of women in mens clothes to be just as silly as the opposite way around. So if you are going to let one set do it, you might as well just lift glamour restrictions period. I mean I can run around in my short towel beach outfit as a tank so why bother with having the restrictions at all...

[KaiKatzchen]

I think the whole point that the OP is trying to make is allowing people within the game to express themselves and how they see their character in the way they want too.

Allowing more gear to be unisex so people can (if they choose too, because no one is forcing them) wear it if they would like too. It is obvious gear in this game caters towards the female characters and this has been shown many times. Many pieces of gear have started out male only, and then also been allowed access to females due to players demanding it. This should be fair across the board, allowing people who play male and female characters to express themselves how they would like to be expressed, not bound by the barrier of having to switch genders to be able to access gear. Either that - or make it Male and Female clothes, and stop giving in to people demanding they get it too so male characters have something unique as well.

But in the end - this is a fantasy game, not real life. In real life no one rides a bird around, fights dragons, chops a tree and gets crystals, or jumps off 500 yalm high cliffs and survives with 1 hp. And I can't see the point in bickering about it, tossing insults back and forth, SE will be the one to decide in the end and I would hate to know what they think of how people treat one another here. It's embarrassing. >.<