New glamour dress on a male (art)

[DarkDedede]

If a man walks in wearing a skirt, he attracts attention. It may be as simple as some co-workers laughing about it around the water cooler, or it could be as bad as getting called into the boss's office. And drawing attention to yourself in Japanese culture in such a way is frowned upon.
You may not like it, and to be honest I'm not happy about it either, but this is simply reality.

Why are you even comparing real world office life to fictional fantasy adventurer life? As civil and "well thought out" as your examples may be, it really is an utterly invalid comparison. You may as well compare game life, with the social mating etiquette of American and Japanese sea life. I'm sure there are noticeable differences in that comparison too, but they wouldn't really apply to the current issue either.


Now, let's apply your logic into the context of the actual game. If a male character enters a DF group in traditional armor, no one will "say a word." If that same character enters a DF glamoured completely in their underwear, no one will "say a word." If that same character were to enter a DF in a wedding dress, I'd say it's a safe bet no one would even care if it were a male or a female.

Yes, were this the real world, a man in a dress would get some looks. However in the game world, a "man" can walk around with a great axe, and would most likely not even get looked at. In game world fantasy terms, I really doubt anyone would want to mess with the man with the great axe, even if he were wearing a more feminine outfit. By most fictional character standards, those are the characters you really wouldn't want to mess with. Plus, I really doubt that many people, even you, would pay enough attention to even care if there's a male character in gear designed primarily for females.

Besides, I really doubt social "whatever-you-may-call-it" really plays that much of a factor into why there are these gender specific gear rules, especially in a game that allows same gender unions.

[kyuven]

Why are you even comparing real world office life to fictional fantasy adventurer life? As civil and "well thought out" as your examples may be, it really is an utterly invalid comparison. You may as well compare game life, with the social mating etiquette of American and Japanese sea life. I'm sure there are noticeable differences in that comparison too, but they wouldn't really apply to the current issue either.

You missed the point. It's not about how the players within the game see each other. We don't care, by and large.
It's how the people OUTSIDE the game see it.
The people reviewing resumes of the artists that designed the outfits.
The stockholders and bosses looking at the game.
The very, VERY vicious Japanese media looking for something to write a derisive article about on a slow news day.
Remember, there are games out there that get a bad rap for actions you CAN take in the game (such as your ability to mow down civilians in games like GTA and the Elder scrolls games, despite most of the actual story of the game not directing you to do such) that aren't even close to the focus.
So again, it has nothing to do with the players of the game, it has to do with those NOT playing the game that either have big wallets or loud mouths (or both)
Something REMOTELY controversial in Japan can torpedo your company's stock prices.
When Ayumi Hamasaki, a famous Japanese singer, had to announce that she was going deaf in one ear, the stock price for her company shot down like a rocket.

[Miya_Carbuncle]

You missed the point. It's not about how the players within the game see each other. We don't care, by and large.
It's how the people OUTSIDE the game see it.
The people reviewing resumes of the artists that designed the outfits.
The stockholders and bosses looking at the game.
The very, VERY vicious Japanese media looking for something to write a derisive article about on a slow news day.
Remember, there are games out there that get a bad rap for actions you CAN take in the game (such as your ability to mow down civilians in games like GTA and the Elder scrolls games, despite most of the actual story of the game not directing you to do such) that aren't even close to the focus.
So again, it has nothing to do with the players of the game, it has to do with those NOT playing the game that either have big wallets or loud mouths (or both)
Something REMOTELY controversial in Japan can torpedo your company's stock prices.
When Ayumi Hamasaki, a famous Japanese singer, had to announce that she was going deaf in one ear, the stock price for her company shot down like a rocket.

I hate when great posts like these are posted at the bottom of the page. It's just going to get buried and forgotten.

Thanks for bringing up a brand new perspective and writing it in such a way that's easy to understand.

Though I also want to point out that a lot of big games and such in Japan feature male characters in very feminine outfits (like in previous FF games), so I don't think it'd be all that much of a risk. But I don't live in Japan so... *shrug*

[Aeyis]

I hate when great posts like these are posted at the bottom of the page. It's just going to get buried and forgotten.

Thanks for bringing up a brand new perspective and writing it in such a way that's easy to understand.

Though I also want to point out that a lot of big games and such in Japan feature male characters in very feminine outfits (like in previous FF games), so I don't think it'd be all that much of a risk. But I don't live in Japan so... *shrug*

It's a very biased perspective tho. I'd almost ask why Kyuven took a studie in Japanese considering how negative the average statement from Kyuven is, but I already know the answer. Because the past Japan no doubt, not the current one.
Ofcourse thats just a presumption.

[sarcasme]@ Kyuven: Im guessing your most treasured ffxiv possession is a bunny kabuto[/sarcasme]

[Ymal]

Something REMOTELY controversial in Japan can torpedo your company's stock prices.

Just gonna repeat myself again by saying they already have released a lot of dresses and feminine gear for men in this game since more than a year ago and the possibility to have 'gay' 'weddings'. You seem to know so much about Japan and what they are saying about such things, so any sources about how the media reacted when SE added those things to the game? Cause otherwise adding one more dress should really not break the Square Enix company.

Edit: Also you keep making Japan sound as the most serious and strict place on earth, while I agree that their live style and traditions can be very different from ours, .. it's Japan! They are known in the world for their weirdness when it comes about entertainment ! They are the masters about doing silly things for fun in front of their public. They may be extremely strict when it comes about their work lives and family but just like any other country they have their diversity in their inhabitants. I really don't see them boycott SE because of another added skirt in one of their many many many MMO game they have access to, otherwise they would have already done it.

[kyuven]

Snip

There's a strong difference between something like the Flame Elite's outfit, which has a skirt but looks more like a slightly revealing robe when worn, and isn't NECESSARILY feminine on its own (also note it's caster gear, casters get a LOT of leeway when it comes to things with skirts), and the wedding dress, Spring Dress, Bunny Outfit, and now this outfit. See, the former outfits are "gender neutral with a feminine flair," while the other outfits are strongly feminine. I know it doesn't come across this way to some people but that's pretty much it right there.

Here's the thing: Those weird things they're known for? Yeah they're weird to THEM too. You know how we watch shows like Honey Boo Boo or Jersey Shore while still mocking them and anyone who adheres to that lifestyle? It's the same thing.
The thing is Japanese culture can be extremely passive aggressive about this sort of thing.
Is it the strictest place on Earth? No, but there's an interesting reason why.
See, you're supposed to keep your predilections private, and ANYTHING that becomes public reflects on your family and co-workers. There's an entire movie based on this sort of thing that's readily available (and even got made into a Richard Gere film that lost some of that meaning) called "Shall We Dance?" Yes that's the Japanese title too. In it, a regular salaryman takes up ballroom dancing. Yes, simple ballroom dancing. However, because of the risk of his wife and job finding out and getting him ostracized, he has to keep a secret.
Thus, here's how it would play out if SE started making outfits that bridged onto ACTUAL crossdressing, rather than the grey area of the Flame Elite's outfit or Scylla's robes:
"Yes, I work at Square-Enix. I helped make Final Fantasy XIV."
"Oh...isn't that the game that was on TV yesterday where your character is the giant green man in the bellydancer outfit?"
"Umm..."
"That's kind of gross."

This is also a major reason why many actors, artists, and creators use pseudonyms even when making something innocuous. Any stigmas that get attached to the work get attached to their personal lives. So, the intention here is that they must keep their personal and professional lives separate.
Something tells me something like this happened after Final Fantasy VII, because that's the last time I remember there being male-to-female crossdressing in the main series final fantasy games.

[Oce]

There's a strong difference between something like the Flame Elite's outfit, which has a skirt but looks more like a slightly revealing robe when worn

I'm not going to bother reading the rest because?? Have you seen the skirt on its own??

[Fenral]

There's a strong difference between something like the Flame Elite's outfit, which has a skirt but looks more like a slightly revealing robe when worn, and isn't NECESSARILY feminine on its own

Yeah, right.

Run that by me again?

[Hito-Shura]

Yeah, right.

Run that by me again?

My favorite mage glamour in the game! I use that and the Colosseum set all the time when I'm on a spellcaster! If only you could dye it though...

[BreathlessTao]

Yeah, right.
IMG
Run that by me again?

/hide <img>
...mine >.>

By the way - that's one piece of gear (I MEAN THE LOINCLOTH) that somewhat borders what this thread is about. The whole design is extremely unique, and at the same time extremely restricted. Not gender-wise, but still. Just...y'know, one of those things that I think many people wouldn't mind seeing a more "free" version of. Especially considering that respective Twin Adders and Maelstrom gear comes nowhere near this in "coolness" factor either.