o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Wynn]

This is what happens when a bunch of trolls who never craft whine and whine about how the crafting system sucks. And the best part is they still won't be crafting after the change, they'll keep whining and whining about crap until no one else wants to craft.

Removal of parts is massive, the markets for ores and logs is going to crash hardcore, which makes DoL even more irrelevant than it already is.

I think this reflects my opinion as well. I'm so angry about this that I really don't have the ability to formulate a proper response. I may actually quit over this. Need to take some time to let this sink in.

[Xenor]

I think this reflects my opinion as well. I'm so angry about this that I really don't have the ability to formulate a proper response. I may actually quit over this. Need to take some time to let this sink in.

The only way around it I can see is have the finished items require lumber and nuggets that the parts would have taken but I can't see this happening as SE is trying to reduce mats. Iron ore is already below 1k a piece on my server due to the huge over-supply problem, it's going to be NPC junk when no one is making parts. I've been holding mine hoping price would go up with demand from materia system, but SE just killed any demand for iron.

Also what's this removal of treatise requirements? Those training manuals I've spent hours and hours doing quests and collecting marks to purchase? What's next, give everyone all the skills for free too? It seems the difference between a good crafter and a bad crafter will soon be who has the most time to farm +3 drops off mobs or the most gil to buy them rather than having the right abilities to do your job.

[trinta]

Also what's this removal of treatise requirements? Those training manuals I've spent hours and hours doing quests and collecting marks to purchase? What's next, give everyone all the skills for free too? It seems the difference between a good crafter and a bad crafter will soon be who has the most time to farm +3 drops off mobs or the most gil to buy them rather than having the right abilities to do your job.

As opposed to now, where the difference between a good crafter and a bad crafter is who has time to farm marks at each leve reset, who has the most time to farm +3 drops off mobs or the most gil to buy them, who has the most time and unwatched movies on Netflix to dump into pressing the action button a million times to create parts?

I get that you don't like the changes. But don't imply that the current timesink is anything other than that--you've already talked about the "hours and hours" you've put into it.

[Xenor]

As opposed to now, where the difference between a good crafter and a bad crafter is who has time to farm marks at each leve reset, who has the most time to farm +3 drops off mobs or the most gil to buy them, who has the most time and unwatched movies on Netflix to dump into pressing the action button a million times to create parts?

I get that you don't like the changes. But don't imply that the current timesink is anything other than that--you've already talked about the "hours and hours" you've put into it.

The whole game is a timesink. Take away the timesinks you take away the game. That applies to every game. Just because you spend time playing a game doesn't mean it's bad. Improving your character should always require time, otherwise what's the point of adding new content? Too many kids gotten used to opening their new game, inputting the god mode cheat and playing through it over the years.

And here we go.

Give me some examples of materials that you think will be worthless, I'd like to see what mats you're concerned about.

Iron for starters? Silver, copper, tin, zinc, cedar, oak, pine, mahogany, maple, willow, walnut, yew, chestnut, need I go on? Just have a look in the masons and woodworker wards for any I missed.

[DoubleEcho]

Iron for starters? Silver, copper, tin, zinc, cedar, oak, pine, mahogany, maple, willow, walnut, yew, chestnut, need I go on? Just have a look in the masons and woodworker wards for any I missed.

So no one is going to make iron squares, silver squares? Copper, tin and zinc are all used for BSM, ARM and Goldsmith grinding synths. All of those woods are used to make lumber to grind Carpenter. You seriously think that's going away? You're making this out to be way more than it is.

[Esk]

So no one is going to make iron squares, silver squares? Copper, tin and zinc are all used for BSM, ARM and Goldsmith grinding synths. All of those woods are used to make lumber to grind Carpenter. You seriously think that's going away? You're making this out to be way more than it is.

But all of the next stage will be gone, no shafts, spear heads, arrow heads, sleeves, hoods, back peices..
That is a massive chunk of the production gone right here, how much excess will we have be at the DoL area of the market? This could massively force prices down unless they slaughter the drop rates.

Ok, Based on SE's post just 1 lot of Hempen cloth will replacing something like:
6 Hempen Cloth, 3 leather, 3 yarn, 7 copper nuggets, 3 walnut log 13 earth , 10 wind , 3 fire 2 water & 4 ice shards. (quickly looked up as i dont do weaver, so could be off a little someone feel free to correct me)
(and yes i know more of the base components would be made using that)

So either they are going to have to add slots to the crafting window and make that cloth cost 4x or more yarn at least, or were going to have a hell of a lot of surpluss at that end the market.

[Xenor]

your talking about materials though.... not parts
lumber, nuggets, ingots, planks, thats all materials

grips, handles, weapon heads, tool heads, shafts for pole arms and tools those are all parts.... thats whats going away

not the planks, lumber, nuggets, ingots

and no i'm not too happy with this news.... the parts going away and the new dye system sounds like an ok thing..... the rest eh

Yeah but what makes "grips, handles, weapon heads, tool heads, shafts for pole arms and tools"? It's the lumber, the nuggets, ingots, planks, the materials. If you eliminate the parts you eliminate the need for the materials that make up them.

So no one is going to make iron squares, silver squares? Copper, tin and zinc are all used for BSM, ARM and Goldsmith grinding synths. All of those woods are used to make lumber to grind Carpenter. You seriously think that's going away? You're making this out to be way more than it is.

Come on now, squares are rarely used in anything apart from iron squares for ARM skill ups. However the massive drop in iron demand elsewhere is enough to make it worthless. Like I say iron is already down to less than 1k an ore. I can't say I've ever grinded my ARM or BSM on copper, tin and zinc but these are already worthless materials so it's irrelevant. The only woods a CRP grinds on are yew and walnut if done right. The other woods are only used when making parts. Even a 10% drop in demand for yew and walnut will cause massive devaluation of those materials, the other woods will see 90% drop in demand.

I do wish SE would have given more examples however. Look at the Iron Bhuj recipe for example.

Bronze Axe Butt (x1)
Bronze Axe Ferrule (x1)
Cedar Axe Haft (x1)
Iron Bhuj Head (x1)
Scale Glue (x1)
Hyena Fang (x1)

I mean what are they going to remove from this? If you get rid of the parts you're left with scale glue and a hyena fang. If they changed the recipe to this I'd be okay with it:

Bronze Square (x3)
Cedar Lumber (x1)
Linseed Oil (x1)
Iron Ingot (x2)
Iron Plate (x1)
Iron Rivets (x1)
Scale Glue (x1)
Hyena Fang (x1)

Because that uses the same materials, you're just eliminating synths required to make the four parts. However that is 11 materials so perhaps they could change it to this:

Bronze Ingot (x1)
Cedar Lumber (x1)
Linseed Oil (x1)
Iron Ingot (x3)
Scale Glue (x1)
Hyena Fang (x1)

That's 8 mats vs the original 6, so people will whine whine whine that they need more mats for their synth and it's why SE won't do this. Of course you eliminated 5 synths but people won't notice that. What SE probably will do is this:

Bronze Ingot (x1)
Iron Ingot (x1)
Scale Glue (x1)
Hyena Fang (x1)

So what we have here is 1/3 the demand for iron, 0 demand for cedar and 0 demand for linseed oil in this recipe. Apply that across every recipe and you've got way less demand of everything gathered.

Clearly the biggest problem with this change is the effect on gathering. Gathering production has been too high since forever, if they give this a massive nerf then I think most people complaining about the change will stop complaining. I can currently gather about 70 walnut logs in a 2-3 hour session, if this was cut to say 20 things would be balanced again. Same with iron production and everything else currently gathered. Gathering needs a massive overhaul and it needs to come with the crafting overhaul or you make it irrelevant.

[Cascade]

The whole game is a timesink. Take away the timesinks you take away the game. That applies to every game. Just because you spend time playing a game doesn't mean it's bad. Improving your character should always require time, otherwise what's the point of adding new content? Too many kids gotten used to opening their new game, inputting the god mode cheat and playing through it over the years.



Iron for starters? Silver, copper, tin, zinc, cedar, oak, pine, mahogany, maple, willow, walnut, yew, chestnut, need I go on? Just have a look in the masons and woodworker wards for any I missed.

your talking about materials though.... not parts
lumber, nuggets, ingots, planks, thats all materials

grips, handles, weapon heads, tool heads, shafts for pole arms and tools those are all parts.... thats whats going away

not the planks, lumber, nuggets, ingots

and no i'm not too happy with this news.... the parts going away and the new dye system sounds like an ok thing..... the rest eh

[trinta]

The whole game is a timesink. Take away the timesinks you take away the game. That applies to every game. Just because you spend time playing a game doesn't mean it's bad. Improving your character should always require time, otherwise what's the point of adding new content? Too many kids gotten used to opening their new game, inputting the god mode cheat and playing through it over the years.

You're the one who was trying to imply that this change is bad because it's turning it into a timesink. Go ahead, read what you wrote. Here it is again, for your convenience:

It seems the difference between a good crafter and a bad crafter will soon be who has the most time

For the rest of the context, you can click back from my original quote here. I just truncated the rest, I didn't change the meaning.

It's about who has the most time now, it'll be about who has the most time after these changes are implemented. That's all I'm saying.