Any new new in NIN's positional so?

[Pluvia]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...18d0d45bf52d59

2.4 patch notes. Dancing Edge is started to have a Flanking requirement to get the full 260 Potency after Gust Slash.
If it was a simple mistranslation, That mistranslation managed to make its way into the game, as the ingame tooltip for the skill reflected that Flank requirement.
That was corrected in a later patch, Though Ninjas in general were executing it from Flank with the expectation that it increased the potency, Myself included.
We were told pretty quick that the potency is the same from all around and that a patch would fix the tooltip.

My point is, even when that phantom requirement (translation mistake or altered design notwithstanding) was there tricking a lot of us into Flanking for it, no one cared when they told we didn't need to Flank.
It didn't make any difference whatsoever.

To be fair that was probably because people within the first night figured out it didn't have any requirements and spread the news so a majority didn't have to even pretend like it did. Either way I would like to know what they're changing so i can get it down for the hell of it.

[Sylve]

To be fair that was probably because people within the first night figured out it didn't have any requirements and spread the news so a majority didn't have to even pretend like it did. Either way I would like to know what they're changing so i can get it down for the hell of it.

I'm going to be super amused if it ends up with Dancing Edge that gets a Flank requirement :3

[Adire]

snip

Well, I imagine the design choice to exclude positionals was made in part because of the view that the job was challenging enough to play to justify its DPS.

The intent was there to make it a non-positional oriented job from the start, and while there were of course people who played the job using positionals believing them to actually be implemented(and probably played it well), it was unnecessary.

Plus, back at that time, the job was new and for all people knew, it was the intended difficulty. Now we know better. And now we know that NIN is a job with a very definitive playstyle. I, along with a lot of people I would assume, choose to main it because we like the type of difficulty it has vs the type MNK and early DRG had.

I've said on other threads, there are many ways they can make NIN more difficult to play without adding positionals that appeal to MNK mains. They can add difficulty to appeal to the type of person who mains NIN, and that would be better in my opinion.

[Pluvia]

I'm going to be super amused if it ends up with Dancing Edge that gets a Flank requirement :3

You and me both would be the trolliest thing SE could do. Honestly though we'll probably have it changed to be more like dragoons with mudras. Unless they drink the Kool aid and give them the same amount of positionals as monks.

[Sylve]

You and me both would be the trolliest thing SE could do. Honestly though we'll probably have it changed to be more like dragoons with mudras. Unless they drink the Kool aid and give them the same amount of positionals as monks.

I really do doubt that it'll more than 2 skills that get a positional.
3 at the most.

Dancing Edge is a good candidate. Though there really isn't all that many skills that make sense to add a positional too, but lets not forget that we're getting brand new weapon skills, which may be where the positionals get slapped onto.

[Allyrion]

Well, I imagine the design choice to exclude positionals was made in part because of the view that the job was challenging enough to play to justify its DPS.

The intent was there to make it a non-positional oriented job from the start, and while there were of course people who played the job using positionals believing them to actually be implemented(and probably played it well), it was unnecessary.

Plus, back at that time, the job was new and for all people knew, it was the intended difficulty. Now we know better. And now we know that NIN is a job with a very definitive playstyle. I, along with a lot of people I would assume, choose to main it because we like the type of difficulty it has vs the type MNK and early DRG had.

I think you put too much emphasis on thinking SE handcrafted NIN difficulty to perfection without positionals in mind.
I think it's much more flexible than that, and they clearly think that adding positionals to manage would be within the range of mechanics they want for NIN.
Whatever they thought originally, they changed their mind and think we can handle the NIN rotation with positionals.

I've said on other threads, there are many ways they can make NIN more difficult to play without adding positionals that appeal to MNK mains. They can add difficulty to appeal to the type of person who mains NIN, and that would be better in my opinion.

You say that, yet I'm a NIN main and I obviously think adding positionals are okay.
I've argued this with you before, but don't get me wrong.
I think they can and should add a lot of interesting and challenging mechanics to Ninja going forward.
But I've also made it clear that I believe NIN isn't ready for that much change yet due to it only being live for one tier of raiding.
I want them to think carefully on what direction on how to develop NIN.
Positionals aren't a development or direction. They're more basic than that.


I think Positionals are to Melee as Casting is to Ranged.
Ranged get more dps standing still and lose dps moving, but some are certainly more mobile than other having instant casts or through stance switching (for the new BRD).
Every ranged still has to work around the idea that movement needs to be managed.
This is why BRD had to get WM.

For Melee, some have less positional bonuses than others (equivalent to having instant casts) but they should all still have to consider their movement.
I honestly don't think freedom of movement is a luxury any dps should afford.
I don't think NIN should be MNKs with knives, but having positionals doesn't do that.
Just like charging attacks is a basic function of ranged, positional attacks should be a basic function of melee.

I want to play a NIN and I want them to add interesting Ninja only mechanics.
I also want to have to consider my movement to some extent or lose some damage while doing all of that.
I think NIN will get some more interesting mechanics after Heavensward launch since it came out so late.

Sure, it's not great to see everyone else get more interesting changes.
But we shouldn't pretend things are equal here. NIN came out in 2.4 with the Final Coil.
Our launch was late and there's no reason to expect we'd get the same treatment.

[Punintentional]

So out of curiosity have they said if the positional will just do extra damage compared to now or will missing the positional will result in less damage then the skills currently have.

As an example Dancing edge currently has 260, so will it keep the 260 base with a bonus for positional, or will the base be like 200 (random number) and the bonus make it like 300 (also random number).

If the former is true then I don't real see a problem with adding the positionals, because you can keep your current rotation while slowly adding in the new mechanics with no loss in DPS.

All in all I will wait to judge the play style until I get the chance to use it but I agree that more information would be helpful.

[FallenArisen0990]

Man, Ninja is perfect. I'm honestly not gonna miss the more importance of Goad. I rather they get rid of it in all honestly. The positionals aren't even that bad. Stop planting your feet to the ground and taking AoEs. The enmity control thing is only good for.... nothing. The hell am I gonna use it for? Unless we're gonna see more of Kaliya's head mechanics, I just don't know. Also the mudra lag sounds more of a personal problem than an actual problem. Only time it lags is when the server is lagging cuz I've only dealt with it on very rare occasions.

[Adire]

snip

You may want to review the thread I posted on the last page. The person who posted it personally doesn't mind positionals but does see why people do mind them on NIN.

I also never said all NIN mains are like I am. I am saying that a lot of people do like NIN for its playstyle though, and preserving it is important in order to preserve diversity.

[Nalien]

I'm going to be super amused if it ends up with Dancing Edge that gets a Flank requirement :3

Not as amused as I'll be when all they do is add a new Hide skill (Surprise Attack?) with a Flank requirement, one which no doubt will be as amazing as Sneak Attack.

Although looking at what they're doing to other Jobs, a new X Attack could be an amazing addition. Work it like Black Mages Enochian perhaps... Keeps Sution up and removes the cooldown for X Attacks. Then we have a new rotation in which we pop the new Flank Attack > Trick Attack > Sneak Attack > repeat, before the effect wears off... That would be the best way to implement positional requirements on Ninja. Would be nice if Sneak Attack wasn't so damned worthless...

Holy crap I kinda really want that now... A new passive buff which removes the cooldown on Sneak/Trick/Flank Attack. Flank Attack keeps Sution up for multiple attacks. Sution > Flank Attack > Trick Attack > Sneak Attack > Shukuchi back behind the mob.