Are the Twelve Primals too?

[Jonnycbad]

The soulstones from job quests are highly reminiscent of the zodiac brave stones from FFtactics. Later retconned as Auracite, they are correlated with the 12(13) zodiac braves, but also with the 12(13) lucavi(demons).

12 is a big number in FFXIV. There are 12 zodiac signs,12 atmas, "The Twelve" deities.
There is a 13th Zodiac Sign, Ophiuchus aka Serpentarius. In FFT when fighting the Lucavi of that wielded 13th Zodiac Stone, he used an ultimate summon spell on you called "Zodiac", later retconned in FFT/FF12 as "Zodiark".
There are 10 jobs right now...3 being added in 3.0, making 13.

I think the 10 soulstones we have now for each of the 10 jobs, plus the 3 upcoming ones making 13 will be the stones which hold the souls of the zodiac braves and by extension the 12 or whatever. For example, there's one of the 12 whom is aligned with wind, I forgot her name, the navigator or something, she wields a spear. Probably aligned with the DRG soulstone as DRGs are associated with wind.

[Jonnycbad]

I think the underlying THEME of FFXIV and gods/primals is that "you shouldn't rely on gods to meddle in mortal affairs". it's been kind of a theme of FF series in general and it holds true for this iteration as well. Summoning gods during times of desperation always complicates matters because gods have their own agenda and are often cited as using/manipulating mortals to obtain higher power. Most of the Primals in FFXI seem benevolent to their summoners, but in reality they simply seek power and usually have plans to become 'the one true god' or at least that was Garuda's goal. I think the general consensus is all primals are bad, all beings come to pray and have faith in these gods to deliver them from hardships instead of using their own powers, and in doing so, end up doing more harm to the planet. There's tons of allegories here for real life, how humans have long relied on religion and belief in the supernatural to handle very real and very natural problems.

[LineageRazor]

I think the 10 soulstones we have now for each of the 10 jobs, plus the 3 upcoming ones making 13 will be the stones which hold the souls of the zodiac braves and by extension the 12 or whatever. For example, there's one of the 12 whom is aligned with wind, I forgot her name, the navigator or something, she wields a spear. Probably aligned with the DRG soulstone as DRGs are associated with wind.

Well, there are a couple of problems with this. For starters, the new jobs in Heavensward are unlikely to have soulstones, for one simple reason: What would happen if you took your Soulstone OFF? These jobs have no classes, so there's nothing to revert to. But you're still holding the weapon for that job, so you can't default to any other job or class. It'd just be a mess to worry about, and so I doubt SE will worry about it. They'll take the easy way out and just make these jobs not require a Soulstone.

Secondly, even if we did have soulstones for these jobs, I can guarantee you these will not be the last three jobs to be added to FFXIV, at least not unless they plan on shutting the game down absurdly early in its lifetime. So, how do jobs 14 through 1000 fit into the the 12 (13) Zodiac signs?

The 12(13) braves/demons thing is interesting, but I very much doubt that the job system will be in any way connected to it.

[Allyrion]

Well, there are a couple of problems with this. For starters, the new jobs in Heavensward are unlikely to have soulstones, for one simple reason: What would happen if you took your Soulstone OFF? These jobs have no classes, so there's nothing to revert to. But you're still holding the weapon for that job, so you can't default to any other job or class. It'd just be a mess to worry about, and so I doubt SE will worry about it. They'll take the easy way out and just make these jobs not require a Soulstone.

Secondly, even if we did have soulstones for these jobs, I can guarantee you these will not be the last three jobs to be added to FFXIV, at least not unless they plan on shutting the game down absurdly early in its lifetime. So, how do jobs 14 through 1000 fit into the the 12 (13) Zodiac signs?

The 12(13) braves/demons thing is interesting, but I very much doubt that the job system will be in any way connected to it.

Well, I agree with the second point. It's unlikely they'll tie the number of jobs into the story simply because I'm pretty sure they're going to add a lot more.

On the first point, I don't agree. I think a Soulstone is part of what it means to be a Job and I don't think they'll not include it.
It wouldn't be a mess, they can just have it the same as trying to take off your weapon. You can't. You can only switch weapons. It would be simple to not let you unequip the Soulstone while you're one of those Jobs.

[DracotheDragon]

one thing most forget is then when you count the twelve there are actually thirteen Nhal'Thal the brothers or the merchants, its plural, so there is actually thirteen gods but they are both counted togeaver :3

[Waffilicious]

13 gods and hydalyn making 14 final fantasy 14 mystery resolved i am super simple right now

oh yeah almost forgot they showed 12 knights of legend in ishgard

[Ninimo_Babamo]

That's one of the bigger questions in the game (well, more specifically, if the Twelve are independently real). From Gaius van Baelsar to Louisoix to the Ascians themselves, everyone seems convinced that anything that comes out of a summoning is going to be an aether-sucking primal(-like entity).

But does something exist? Are there Twelve true gods? Ascended mortals? Mortals that history remembers inaccurately? We're not sure yet.

We can be pretty confident that summoning them is a bad idea, though.

I can't believe you're still here.

Anyway, seeing as Louisoix did have us pray to the 12 at the end of 1.0 for their aid, as I'm sure you remember, and we did see some evidence of Louisoix using their power to contain Bahamut, I think it's safe to say that something of them does exist. Something of them must be real, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are all powerful, or even as powerful as a primal.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

There are a couple different intertwining, interfering questions here. Allow me to try to disentangle.

This was a great post, and as far as the over arching argument about Primals, this is one of the better explanations I've seen so far, and I fully agree with what you are saying.

To anybody else reading this, if you missed that post, and are still looking for info on any primal, re read what was said there.

But does something exist? Are there Twelve true gods? Ascended mortals? Mortals that history remembers inaccurately? We're not sure yet.

I think it's safe to say that something of them does exist.

Moose is just pointing out some unanswered metaphysical questions. I agree with your assumptions, however, I also don't think anything needed to be there before hand, so it's possible they are fictional. . .

[Zohar_Lahar]

Based on Unukalhai's statement regarding the Warring Triad and Dark Divinity, I'm now inclined to consider the Twelve to be eikons rather than primals.

[PArcher]

Based on Unukalhai's statement regarding the Warring Triad and Dark Divinity, I'm now inclined to consider the Twelve to be eikons rather than primals.

I don't think we can say for sure what they are yet, since we don't have any physical manifestations of them (yet). They definitely have the potential to become Primals, but considering Eikons seem to be physically manifested (even if sealed away in some sort of prison) unless we find the Twelve somewhere in the world, I'm going with them just being "ideas" (lack of a better word) that people flock to. That's just the current "form" of the Twelve, mind you, I like the theory that they were originally twelve heroes (the Archons, perhaps?) of Allag that became worshiped after the earthquake.