The Ninja Superthread

[Pluvia]

Has double MNK been a thing since NIN released? I know some of the first groups through FCoB had double MNK, but MNK/NIN made it into the first 5 groups, so. . . And I doubt that having a DK slave for one MNK will be a bigger DPS boost than having TA available.

True it hasn't anymore but has the potential to if SE doesn't do it right. Mostly just sick of all the monks bitching on the forums right now so kinda hope they nosedive both ninja and dragoons so the crybaby monks who bitch about ninjas having a slight movemespeed buff will get their ways. (protip high progression ninjas could careless about the moment speed and the fall damage reduction you can have it give ninjas better passives.)

Add one positional combo to ninja fix the mudra lag give them similar not the same dps as monk have monk the highest. and make ninja and dragoon slightly lower then them

[Cexikitin]

Adding positionals to Ninja is very souring. The last thing Ninja needs is the same arbitrary tediousness that plagues the other two melee; here's to hoping it's not too invasive like Dragoon's recent positional overhaul.

Exactly this!
If I wanted to play DDR I would play mnk or drg.

I very much enjoy ninja in its current form, I currently loathe when a mob spins to face someone and trick attack gets wasted and can only expect its going to feel the same for whatever they add it to.

[GrimoireOfAlice]

Well that's totally soured my hopes for Ninja in Heavensward.
This presentation made it seem like they don't want people playing Ninja in heavensward.

A quality of life improvement we didn't really need attatched to a weapon skill that I now have to find room for in my rotation so we can do an extra laggy Mudra all while fitting in positionals we didn't need or want.

Compared to the rest of the line up this is seriously disappointing.

Why no new situational Mudra? Almost every Mudra has its place in the rotation and literally no situational value except for the ice spell that binds. That's one situational spell out of how many Ninjutsu?

You have the entire final fantasy series and the every myth, fantasy and fiction of the Ninja to draw your inspiration from. And the best you can do is a slightly longer duration buff and having to poke things from different angles. And using us to fix the problem that people cannot hold fire for a second to let the tank begin his combo.

[Craiger]

Well that's totally soured my hopes for Ninja in Heavensward.
This presentation made it seem like they don't want people playing Ninja in heavensward.

A quality of life improvement we didn't really need attatched to a weapon skill that I now have to find room for in my rotation so we can do an extra laggy Mudra all while fitting in positionals we didn't need or want.

Compared to the rest of the line up this is seriously disappointing.

Why no new situational Mudra? Almost every Mudra has its place in the rotation and literally no situational value except for the ice spell that binds. That's one situational spell out of how many Ninjutsu?

You have the entire final fantasy series and the every myth, fantasy and fiction of the Ninja to draw your inspiration from. And the best you can do is a slightly longer duration buff and having to poke things from different angles. And using us to fix the problem that people cannot hold fire for a second to let the tank begin his combo.

That bold underlined part might be true for the NINs (ofc), but while it didn't have to be positionals, they needed something to make them more balanced... Just like they said in the live letter.

Maybe you haven't realized it, but NIN have the highest DPS in the game(consistently at least), no positionals except TA which doesn't count IMO, easy rotation and on top of that, they have the added damage to whole group. They're way too easy for what they give you, and it seems to be the whole trend with the expansion to level out the difficulty of the jobs somewhat.

It's not hard hitting the positionals, and I pretty sure it will work like DRG's and MNK's abilities, so you will only get lower potency if you miss it, not have to do it again or something.

[Pluvia]

This is not from this thread just brought it over so i wouldn't have to retype a new context to my post

Sorry, but I have to lol at nin complaining about positional requirements.. Seriously. If you don't want them then go play a bard or caster or tank or healer.. MNK and DRG have had them the whole time.. There's still plenty of MNK and DRG out there, isn't there? Hitting a positional is a rewarding challenge, there is not challenge to stand in one spot and mash buttons. What a lazy attitude lol


Anyways.. Maybe they'll change goad, maybe not. As selfish as most NIN seem to be acting about their positionals, then they'd prolly just be selfishly using it on themselves the whole time anyways lol. I also doubt the enmity reduction ability will be able to troll tanks, there's no need to reduce enmity of the top target, really, only the gap between 1st and 2nd in aggro, or maybe it will have a stipulation such as "has no effect on tank jobs". It will be a niche use ability, no doubt, but us DRG and MNK will love it when you help us not pull off the tanks since we are gonna be so OP :P

(yes, that was a cheap shot lol)

The whole point of this is not to enrage you guys, just want to point out, it's so early, with little information being released. Why get all worked up over it before it actually comes out? I doubt NIN is going to become the red headed stepchild of FFXIV, if anything that's where SMN is heading.. xD

Naw just more of a slap to the face here have some positionals screw what we said about almost no positionals and making up with it for ninjutsu screw making it technical instead of positional we take back what we said and here have some more useless utility oh and enjoy another nerf to goad.(yes i know we have no clue what the abilties are that are coming for sure just from what we've heard I look at it all in a anything can change way. they could change goad completely and make it better)

Instead we get a dps right now that equals monk doesn't have but 2 positionals has mudra lag has people posting parse on dummies causing buthurt crybaby monks(not most of the monk just the really retarded ones) to bitch on the forums about the moment speed buff ninja has (gg no good ninja really cares about it you can have it and please take the less fall damage trait as well) yes i agree monk should be top dps as of now(not so if the new mechanics make GL retard easy though and how does this matter when you compare dps.)

TLDR: Say fuck the positionals fix mudra lag and make ninjas more technical instead of positional. no postionals will not ruin the class but you damn well sure better not be bitching when ninjas end up either tied with monk or overtake monks because SE goes full retard at the start of the expansion and over compensate buffs instead of balancing all 3 melee.

[Arkenne]

It would be interesting if the only benefit from positional was the prolonging of Huton.

[Odowla]

Really you should stop speculating so badly ans saying you'll quit the class

how do you know aeolian edge from behind isnt going to be 600 potency

exactly

you don't.

Don't bitch about mechanics we don't even know yet. It makes no sense for ninja to have a overhaul of mechanics less than a year after it came out; the class was made with heavensward changes in mind. Like, why bother releasing NIN before the expansion if it's not finished and they need to flesh out all the mechanics again; why not just wait.

That's why they're addressing the problems of the other classes, some of them have design flaws or problems with their kits since we've not had a change in a year and a half almost. and Those are what are being addressed. There's NO REASON to completetly overhaul how you play ninja when they already knew what they wanted ninja to look like in expansion.

We also don't even know if it's all a back positional or if its all a flank, literally pointless to bitch, you'll look like such a retard when it comes out and you just haveto stand at the side until its time to trick attack then go back to standing at the side continuing to 123.


Also you really should stfu about ninja being weak, Monk side rotation is like 500 dps

ninja doing 123 123 123 123 123 using Trick + cooldowns is 600 dps. That's pretty good for just 123'ing if you ask me.

[silentwindfr]

ninja don't do 123, you are far from the reality...

the ninja have a cycle quite unstable because we need to replace one dot in combo every 18 second, where the other one is out of combo and have a duration of 30 second, more important the mudra that can mess up the cycle because of the lag. normally a 3 mudra skill must take 1.5-1.7 second but with the lag it's often over 2.2-2.3 when our gcd is often under 2.1.

other point the ninjutsu mechanic is the only mechanic that can failed! no monk nor dragoon nor summoner nor black mage nor even bard have a skill that can simply fail and loose a 20 second CD.

ohh before i forget, we do have the biggest cycle of the game.... far over the one of the dragoon, our cycle is 60-70 second. the time needed for refresh Huton, only the ninjutsu take 11 imput (3 for raiton, 4 from huton and 4 for suiton) we use 3 type of combo and i don't talk of the outgcd skill.... seriously, i play both monk and ninja, monk have the easy way in comparaison, the positional fight of the monk are extremely simple (if the tank is not a moron)
you navigate between 2 combo, one for the side and one for the back, depending of the time for the dot you make a small variation for the end of the combo...

seriously monk are still the best dps out, if you are beaten by a ninja, you need to train more dude!

ps: next time before come talk of a jobs, try to play it a bit....

[ClaireAbigail]

ninja don't do 123, you are far from the reality...
ps: next time before come talk of a jobs, try to play it a bit....

Hey buddy...you should uuhh reread what Odo is saying. Odo is trying to say that ONLY doing 1-2-3 plus cd and TA will land you that dps. A Monk doing ONLY flank will do that amount of dps(theoretically). He didn't say that ninja's rotation only involves a three button rotation.



PS: a lot of people who mains monk also plays ninja and vice versa. Watch who you try to sass buddy! Make sure you're ahead of them achievement wise!

[Viridiana]

ninja don't do 123, you are far from the reality...

the ninja have a cycle quite unstable because we need to replace one dot in combo every 18 second, where the other one is out of combo and have a duration of 30 second, more important the mudra that can mess up the cycle because of the lag. normally a 3 mudra skill must take 1.5-1.7 second but with the lag it's often over 2.2-2.3 when our gcd is often under 2.1.

other point the ninjutsu mechanic is the only mechanic that can failed! no monk nor dragoon nor summoner nor black mage nor even bard have a skill that can simply fail and loose a 20 second CD.

ohh before i forget, we do have the biggest cycle of the game.... far over the one of the dragoon, our cycle is 60-70 second. the time needed for refresh Huton, only the ninjutsu take 11 imput (3 for raiton, 4 from huton and 4 for suiton) we use 3 type of combo and i don't talk of the outgcd skill.... seriously, i play both monk and ninja, monk have the easy way in comparaison, the positional fight of the monk are extremely simple (if the tank is not a moron)
you navigate between 2 combo, one for the side and one for the back, depending of the time for the dot you make a small variation for the end of the combo...

seriously monk are still the best dps out, if you are beaten by a ninja, you need to train more dude!

ps: next time before come talk of a jobs, try to play it a bit....

I think you misunderstand what Odowla meant by the 123 comment. NIN keeping up Huton and doing 123 can do 600 DPS, I believe is what he was saying. Compared to a MNK losing more DPS if stuck doing a flank-only rotation. Which I'm not sure about the accuracy of, but it's still best to argue against what the person is saying.

That said, I believe you're vastly over-rating the difficulty of the NIN rotation. Huton if it's about to fall, Suiton if TA is up, Fuma otherwise (Raiton if you can fit it without clipping). Dancing Edge if there's no WAR and the debuff is about to fall, Shadow Fang or Mutilate if they're about to fall, Aeolian Edge if you have time.

Also, you can't say that we have a longer cycle than DRG based on our oGCD skills and then ignore the DRG oGCD skills. If we have a 70 second cycle because of Huton, then DRG has a 120 second one because of DFD. To count it otherwise would be dishonest.