The Ninja Superthread

[Viridiana]

(raiton potency > aeolian edge)

Only not, because Aeolian Edge gets a 20% boost from venoms that Raiton does not.

[Arkenne]

Pointers for Gust Slash

Well, in a perfect world, yea, so long the Huton is refreshed and not only extended a bit :/
It can happen...

As it could happen that maybe these new weaponskills would actually branch after each of the current weaponskills!!! WOOO~♪ (having delusions here).

[Dante_V]

You are indeed correct but even then its still a net increase. you are forgetting that in this case the raiton would be replacing a huton, that is a mudra with zero potency and the aeolian would be replaced with a weaponskill that has a potency that is yet unknown for one single rotation.

The original combo requires a huton (zero dps) and you get aeolian edge (320 potency + 20%)
The new combo allows a raiton instead of the huton (360 potency) and an aeolian edge (320 potency + 20%)
On the rotations where you use the refresh instead of aeolian then it would be raiton (360 potency) and huton refresh (??? potency + 20%)

Either way you are removing a mudra from the rotation that has zero potency. It's a net increase either way. The developers even pointed this out saying it should allow for for more dps.

[Viridiana]

You are indeed correct but even then its still a net increase. you are forgetting that in this case the raiton would be replacing a huton, that is a mudra with zero potency and the aeolian would be replaced with a weaponskill that has a potency that is yet unknown for one single rotation.

I agree with your break down, and it's definitely a DPS increase to extend Huton; I'm specifically saying that Aeolian gets a 132% multiplier. Saying things like "Raiton > Aeolian Edge" might make people think that's true, when it's only true if you're playing wrong.

[Dante_V]

Also as far as the positional go I think a lot of people are assuming that the positionals will result in a dps loss from where we are now but it's honestly likely that they could increase the dps with bonuses. Like regular dancing edge 260 combo potency but if you do from the flank it's 300 potency. I would gladly take positional bonuses that increase weapon skill potency. Now if they force you to the positional to receive the same potency we have now then that would be upsetting but I'm more inclined to think it will be a buff like the former example.

[Arkenne]

Well, so far we have a lot of speculations...

1) Positionas ->
- Will affect damage done +/- or
- Will increase Huton's duration by a certain ammount?
2) New GCD ->
- Will it increase Huton's duration by a few seconds or reset it completely?
- Will it really come off of Gust Slash or the journalist just didnt know the weaponskill's name?
- Will it be the only one related to Huton's duration? (it was mentioned the increase would be through Weaponskills... plurals)
- So far we've only considered 1, but the video shows 2 GCDs, if one is enough of a headache, how would 2 more actually play?
- Will these skills actually chain one after another independently of the other weaponskills making up a whole new combo?
3) Aeolian Edge on danger ->
- Will news Weaponskills replace Aeolian Edge from certain scenary if it really comes out of Gust Slash?

Almost 2 weeks, guys!

[Leonus]

I somehow doubt that the new move will completely reset huton's duration completely.

Just a feeling though.

[silentwindfr]

don't get me wrong i know that the refresh of huton will be an increase of dps, it's a given since we will be able to use more raiton, however, it don't change the sole fact that the cycle is not smooth nor fluid, from my standpoint it will be near impossible to use aeolian edge if the new skill that refresh huton simply add a small duration. and there a question, why create a skill that will render another skill totally useless?

other point, if you think that the positional will result into a boost of dps, you are dreaming! they will change the skill, not add a positional trait past 50, means they need to keep the balance of the game for the one that don't own heavenward, if the positional is resulting into a up of dps for the ninja, it will render the monk and dragoon pre HW useless. and it was not presented like an upgrade of our tool, but really like a new restriction.

but i digress there, it don't change the sole fact that they try to make us dance on one feet, while juggling and avoiding arrow of fire shoot at us. but here come a point, that seems to be have missed a loooooooot. in the balance of a game, if a jobs recquire more skill for be played... it generally tend to be the jobs the most rewarding. however, i doubt severly that we will get rewarded for master a jobs.... that will be broken, we can argue about this, but it's the feeling i get.

we don't really get boost or new gameplay experience, but more and more restriction... indeed our dps will increase, they are forced to do it since the other jobs receive new skill that increase them capacity at deal damage and they can't make our jobs useless.

we simply need to look at the data we have gotten:
- add of positional on the skill already existing (and probably the new one)
- new combo not smooth nor fluid, but more complicate for... nothing...
- 2 skill situational, because the two enmity skill are situational, they are probably skill with a 2-3 minute CD....

and everything is mixed with the mudra lag... gosh, did they really really try this before say it's good? because i'm still remember Yoshida saying the player did discover stuff about the ninja that them tester didn't. i'm scared that the same useless tester was the one that did try this and said it was good. more bad, i feel they don't really have try to make our main tool, ninjutsu, get an improvement or any evolution.

and the worst, it's the fact, that the whole new expansion experience is a mix of systeme that don't mix well together. positional + combo not fluid + debuff and buff with too many different setup+ mudra lag. more i think about it.... more im' unable to imagine a cycle that can work. and i try only with the new huton refresh skill.... what if musou sandan it's a gcd skill? i'm sorry, but we can't make square pass a hole with a circle form. they really need to pay attention to the big picture instead to throw us skill without think about the impact on the jobs.

ps: and the thing that sad me the most it's i have the feeling that nothing we say is really listened... because in the end, who gonna play the ninja? them? yoshida? no it's us. if us the ninja community are already saying that something is not right, maybe it's time to listen to us. i'm more scared of the expansion for the ninja, than expecting it... and it's not normal

pss: i prefer be the devil advocate now, than regreting later when it's too late.

[Dante_V]

"and there a question, why create a skill that will render another skill totally useless?"

I think we are on the same train of thought here which is why I'm not really considering that it would replace aeolian to any relevant degree. You are right it doesn't make sense and that's even more reason to believe it won't be that way. Maybe 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4.

And have more faith in the developers man. I'm sure some of these guys play the game as ninjas too. I don't think it will be as bad as people are making it. I'm still really excited for all of these things honestly. At this point I've pretty much maxed out the skill set and dps potential of the ninja and while I love playing the class it needs something more. Positional bonuses, the ability to do more damage mudras, some new weapon skills, a enmity reduction move so I dont have to get my face ripped off when I tear open a boss. It all sounds good to me. More of the same wouldn't be acceptable imo and I really think the dps increases from what they are implementing will be substantial.

That being said I wouldn't mind if some people dropped the ninja job for one reason or another because the job is over saturated as it is. Whether it is out of hate for the new moves or hype train for the new classes doesn't matter to me.

[Arkenne]

Devil's advocate

Frankly speaking Im not very optimistic myself. The MNK changes sounds quite more fun, altho Im still going to max NIN through the MSQ first and foremost.

And I gotta agree that so far the changes for NIN sounds more like a nerf than a buff. I will still just spam more Shurikens =-=a