summoner dps how to do it

[Havenchild]

I can see why SMN threads die out - while the initial learning curve is daunting once you get used to it there isn't really that much to say.

I'd say it's the opposite. To me, it seems more of a complexity within the simplicity front that is often not pinpointed. Like if you can look at everything a very good SMN does and try to copy it , most of the time you still won't pull the same numbers. It's only after you become absorbed within your own rotation of DoTs & Spells and push it to the limit, that everything just sorta clicks finally. At that point, take a step back and try to look at every single thing you do. Now try to tell someone else to do the same and suddenly it's much harder to describe everything in one summary. Largely, this leads to so much micro-information that's gonna take you to the next point, spread out and lost within forums and threads all the time.

I realized when writing my guide that exact same thing. I wrote many things down and when I looked back, I was amazed to find that a lot of the things I did overall, was still missing. I think often enough, the class has too many angles or outlets regarding it's overall play style and that's why the simple upkeep can't bring you to a stage beyond average. I've seen many SMNs play the class on the front level and pulling what I would consider is the average number a SMN would be pulling at 130, and then you just see those lights from other SMNs and it's in an entire other league.

People can point you in the right direction but until you become in sync with it's core, you can't take the next step into the higher numbers. Once you take the step, you are now just doing anything you can to stretch everything you know to it's absolute limit.

This is why I sometimes feel SMN might actually need a DPS buff. While I'm perfectly content with the numbers I can pull with the tools I have, I sure don't believe anyone on the dev team meant the SMN class to be this overbearing in play-style to compete for the caster position. It seems just too much. It's either streamline it or reward the effort now. Playing catchup is rather difficult on the class and I wouldn't even just leave it with bad gearing. Gearing customization is not what really holds back people on the class. It's very heavily the actual gameplay required.

[Judge_Xero]

For SMN to be so heavily influenced by party composition, Foes timing, Pet Downtime, MP, Book Smacks, gear stats, party buff not effecting pet, food not effecting pet, higher acc requirement and most complex and punishing play style,

I'm going to have agree with you.

[pandabearcat]

Yea, but all the stuff is so abstruse that they seem more exploits than intended gameplay.

[Judge_Xero]

Yea, but all the stuff is so abstruse that they seem more exploits than intended gameplay.

I believe that would be the case, if it wasn't the only way for SMN to have competitive DPS currently.

[Crescent_Dusk]

Well, cross your fingers with Heavensward. FFXIV has many pluses, consistent and meaningful class tweaks are not one of them.

I mean, since release, what change has come to the class? Removed thunder, some marginal egi tweaks, and some reduction in ruin cost. That's it.

So it's fairly reasonable to expect that if they do not get it right with Heavensward, you're gonna be waiting till the next expansion and hope they finally get it that time.

Another problem is a key feature of class balancing in MMO's. Classes are balanced for similar performance, but they are not balanced for how complex it is to achieve said performance. Summoner and monk are similar. A monk needs to learn the fight in and out to not lose his greased lightning stacks reliably, to land his positionals without endangering the group. And yet ninja and dragoon compete with it on DPS, why are classes that are more flexible able to put the same numbers?

And the reason is the top players. People who can play the class to a full potential would make class disparities stark, and that would pass down to pugs for whom it really shouldn't matter, but they are people who follow the meta without understanding context. The amount of whine for example from a blackmage once you put a buffed summoner and a black mage in the hands of skilled players would basically be the same as turn 1-5 BLM whine, griping about how useless they were compared to a summoner.

So sadly you can't have classes that are more complex but with a higher payoff. The only solution is to streamline and simplify the class and make it reliably achieve competitive dps for everybody.

[pandabearcat]

SMN are least affected by fight mechanics though, so they're pretty much the opposite of MNK.

Monks take over 40 seconds to setup (if caught without PB) while SMN take well, 8, if that.

No reason to think that just because a class is more complicated it should pull more dps.

I disagree with the idea that more complex classes should have more "payoff".

The payoff is playing your class well. It isn't that you should do more dps. It simply doesn't make sense to just say "oh well, this class just by default has a higher dps ceiling". Its the hallmark of bad design. I prefer it that every class is balanced (not saying it necessarily is right now) for similar dps at similar gear.

[Sanguisio]

Yes but by no means should a class with a high skill cap be in a disadvantaged position.

[pandabearcat]

"Disadvantaged" is not as clear cut as might seem.

For instance, I wouldn't mind if SMN is like, 5-10% behind the top dps on whatever fight.

Its only when it becomes a detriment to progression that it is a problem.

The idea of "why would you bring X class if Y can do everything better" is also a question that keeps getting brought up but is a baiting question. Clearly not every class is identical. Clearly sometimes utility of a kind is needed.

My experience is thus, I've never had any problems being invited to groups, nor have I had any problems with bosses not dying because of my class. So, in my mind what I want are QoL changes and answers to some questions about "crappy" design addressed, instead of numbers or mechanics buffs.

[Akiza]

Summoner is more complex than the Monk because of the little nuances of the job. An average monk can copy the rotation of a highly skilled monk and achieve similar dps. An average summoner can copy the rotation of a highly skilled summoner and see no difference because the way DoT classes work there will still be a 100 dps difference between a highly skilled summoner and an average summoner. If they don't want to go the buff route they can streamline the job by condensing it to two DoTs poison and miasma then give it direct damage spells turning Summoner into an explosive Black Mage.

[pandabearcat]

What on earth are you talking about, summoner dps variation has nothing to do with dot uptime, like you graduate from SMN 101 and you get 100% dot uptime. Cooldown usage and mechanical quirks like autoattacks are the actual separation.

High dot uptime is much, much easier than hitting every positional every time. For one thing, you don't have to move >.< The rest is up to the player. But really neither BLM nor SMN are very difficult in the rotational department.