Take it easy on the Nerfing :/

[Discordia]

Yo, calm the heck down. You reek of elitism.

Far from it, considering I don't do Coils, I don't even do the Crystal Towers (only once for clears for story), EX or anything else that requires more than a couple of brain cells. If people want a challenge, that is what EX, Coils, etc. are for. Trials tied to main story shouldn't even be in the same space as those raids due to the fact that you don't have any gear or token rewarded for the effort (other than the normal scraps thrown to people so SE can tell them that they technically are being rewarded for their time)

I would raid and do all of that, but I wouldn't come in here crying a river over nothing. There are better fights to be had and this isn't one of those. Like getting rid of Echo from Coil and preserving the difficulties in many raids and non-main story dungeons.

[Discordia]

hat the OP is discussing is a legitimate concern. It isn't pointless in the slightest.

What legitimacy is there? Read my response earlier before you edited your post. If you think you see something legit, then think again. I would understand the outrage if SE told you that they were nerfing coils across the board and allowing players to get the best gear in the game through Poetics and hunts. That is not what is happening here. A nerf to SoF is not the same as welfare gear to Tom, Harry and Janet so that they can get into EX trials and breeze through them. This isn't the same thing at all.

[AdamFyi]

Read my response earlier before you edited your post. If you think you see something legit, then think again.

The OP is asking for one additional dungeon that introduces a challenge, or making one of the three introduced dungeons have a higher difficulty with higher rewards. I see nothing wrong about a suggestion to add more difficult content. It isn't the end of the world if they added more either. Though, I guess you probably didn't read the OP properly. Meh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Gunspec]

The same logic can be used against you, dear. If the raiders don't need the raid gear to raid, then the entire player base doesn't need the gear to raid either. Guess that means that raids should never exist. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why would "not needing gear" equal not "needing a fight with bahumat"? That sounds like the most boring video game ever.

But I'm only joking with people that insist they need something only for raiders or pvpers by being literal with the word "need".

[SpookyGhost]

Where's the Challenge?

Tried Savage SCoB in i110 gear?

[LalaRu]

I'd like categorize content in three main groups.

Group 1: casual-friendly
Content that can be cleared with some difficulty by people with less than average knowledge of their job, and if someone with no clues is in group, anyone with more knowledge will make-up for the missing things. People with average knowledge will get this cleared without major issues, and a group of expert players will faceroll/farm it.

Group 2: learn-the-basics
Content that requires at least an average knowlegde of your job. Some mechanics have to be handled correctly or the group will get hard time or worse, wipe. Dps or healing checks may be in effect but not so much hard, average rotations and a little more attention by healers and tanks will make it cleared. Casuals under average will not pass it until they learn how handle things, or some expert will make up for the missing things. An expert group will have content on farm mode and may skip some mechanics without casualties.

Group 3: endgame
Content that requires every member knows its job and handle correctly all the mechanics present. The clear will be hard to get if someone falls under the "very good" line. Some content at the very end of the game may have higher requirements, up to "near perfect" to be able being cleared. Missing a mechanic is not an option. Casual and average players will not make this, and hardly may meet just the requisites to enter this content. Expert groups will faces wipes and takes their time before put this content on "farm" status.

SoF were falling clearly into group 2. And all main scenario duties must be into group 1, because the game itself is sold as casual-friendly.

With time, everything that is in Group 3 will be nerfed to have it in group 2, and eventually when gets more older, even goes to group 1.

FcOB were in group 3 for some time, to let expert players have their own fun. Now that content has been decided it is time to let more people see it, and has now put into group 2.

Have FcOB in group 2 now, means that SE wants have much more players enjoy the existing content, before release the new one with the expansion, that will release new group 3 content to make the expert people have new fun.

Take this as one-month recap But always take on mind that when content gets older, it will be declassed to let it being experienced by the casuals too. Expert people will be busy on new shinies and hardly they still run there.

[Brill_]

The OP is asking for one additional dungeon that introduces a challenge, or making one of the three introduced dungeons have a higher difficulty with higher rewards. I see nothing wrong about a suggestion to add more difficult content. It isn't the end of the world if they added more either. Though, I guess you probably didn't read the OP properly. Meh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Pharos sirius sort of like that when it was released and no one would run it. Get it in roulette and people quit, just like in steps of faith. I'd like more challenging dungeons, but no one is going to run them if there are easier alternatives.

[AdamFyi]

bahumat

Sorry, I lost it here. xD

That aside, yes, I am trying to tell you that it would be the most boring video game ever. Those content have to have good rewards otherwise nobody would really do them. The gear and items that they drop are those rewards; the incentives. Thus, SE needs to put some kind of reward so that players would do it, or risk otherwise that nobody would dare touch it again. The Steps of Faith is a good example. There isn't much of an incentive to run it more than once, and it was considered difficult content - which is why we have players abandoning the trial if they get it through the roulette.

Edit:

Pharos sirius sort of like that when it was released and no one would run it. Get it in roulette and people quit, just like in steps of faith. I'd like more challenging dungeons, but no one is going to run them if there are easier alternatives.

Note; "higher difficulty with higher rewards."

[Fyce]

Anyway, this fight is all about communication.

Communication never turned bad players into good players.

The only communication needed in SoF (before nerfs) was to assign roles and tell what each role had to do. After that, it all falls into the hands of each individual player to be good at their assigned role.
Getting in a DF with bad players who can't do their job properly would way more often than not lead to a failed SoF run. And that happened a lot.

Initial communication was important, yes, but it never was the only key to victory in the end. You needed communication and at least average players.
No communication or below average player and your run would be a failure.

You clearly didn't run it enough in DF if you don't understand why I'm saying that.

[Lemuria]

It is funny you refer to Steps of Faith as "older content" ^^

My quoted post wasn't solely about Steps of Faith, more that the nerf which hit the fight is a result of their current game model. With old content becoming obsolete rather quickly, the emphasis seems to be on getting all players to the same level. That means making the story content as streamlined as possible as well, so that when Heavensward is released people can access the expansion quickly.

When everything becomes a fast-track to the endgame, it's not hard to see why even recent content is being hit by the nerf bat to keep players from being to far behind.