The constant disbanding of Steps of Faith

[tocsin]

snip.

*sigh*.... let me direct everyone to the alternate strategy again.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rnate-Strategy

Essentially, the large adds (turtle, dragon, and transcendant if possible), are tanked all the way at the spawn point, as far away from vishap as possible, by the two tanks and one healer. there should be one dps, and the other healer on the cannons. the other dps do NO AOE OR PARTY BUFFS, and generate no agro on the adds, while focusing on the boss from a safe distance. when the adds spawn, they will go after npc's, and then mill around without an active target, or go after the healer all the way at the entrance, because the dps are too far away to draw agro, and then despawn. when DK time happens, the dps on cannon hits snare, then sprints and hits other snare, while the healer on cannons sprints up the tower and gets DK.

Its the strategy that requires the least amount of communication, which is the weakest link in the DF.

edit: lol, just go read the OP I linked. looking over my explanation, and then looking at his, his is a lot more in-depth, and will make a lot more sense.

[Waffilicious]

out of the 18 clears i've done helping people i've seen that 1 tank grabbing the miniboss and healer being in the middle with tank does a heal on tank then adds come to healer and you take hate of healer (no one has to be far away so adds don't spread) and just pull them to near the front legs cannons will shoot them, dps concentrate on the miniboss then vishap (adds will depop after a wall is broken so you can pretty much tank the adds if they don't kill them all) miniboss doesn't depop 1 tank on cannons and the other cannon and dk can be healer or dps

[Nalien]

Its the strategy that requires the least amount of communication, which is the weakest link in the DF.

Well, it requires "do NO AOE OR PARTY BUFFS", which after many a sac pull in many a dungeon, is not something I'm confident the Duty Finder can pull off.

I don't really see how it requires less communication, either. Things like cannons and Dragon Killer/Snare are essentially the same, but you have to communicate to avoid the adds while still having the tanks deal with some of them. That seems like more to explain to me.

The only real benefit seems to be that you can completely ignore the big adds. Both strategies let you ignore the little ones, since they die so easily to cannon fire if herded anyway. As long as people are actually dealing with the big ones they go down easily enough to cannon fire and a little bit of DPS focus. That results in you having a horde of NPCs on Vishap and three party members not otherwise busy, overall that seems like a significant gain in DPS to me.

when DK time happens, the dps on cannon hits snare, then sprints and hits other snare, while the healer on cannons sprints up the tower and gets DK.

Is there a particular reason for doing it this way? Having both players on cannons hit their respective Snares while one of the free players hits Dragon Killer means you get a fair amount of extra cannon fires in while he is immobile. Fairly sure the cannons offer more damage than a DPS is capable of so keeping a DPS down to melee him while one cannon goes unused seems like a mistake to me.

[tocsin]

its generally less communication, in that the adds simply aren't there, anywhere near the boss. they spawn, and if the healer and tanks do their job, they just run right for the entrance to the dungeon. no worries of cannons to use stuns and slows, no worries of dps to stay out of all the aoes, its all just pew pew pew for the 4 dps and healer, and the kite team just runs in circles while being chased by a large pile of mobs, and avoids everything.

Is there a particular reason for doing it this way? Having both players on cannons hit their respective Snares while one of the free players hits Dragon Killer means you get a fair amount of extra cannon fires in while he is immobile. Fairly sure the cannons offer more damage than a DPS is capable of so keeping a DPS down to melee him while one cannon goes unused seems like a mistake to me.

its mainly to avoid having the other dps interrupt their rotations. less communication of a third person, and by the point of the snares, the people on the cannons should be getting out of the way anyways, for the aoe.

the strategy utilizes the two main mechanics of the fight:
1. All the adds share threat tables, regardless of location in the map
2. adds despawn after barriers.

[Nalien]

its mainly to avoid having the other dps interrupt their rotations. less communication of a third person, and by the point of the snares, the people on the cannons should be getting out of the way anyways, for the aoe.

The other DPSs rotation isn't going to come close to dealing as much damage as the extra cannon fire though, more so if they're barely passing i90. There should always be two people on cannons IMO.

Avoiding the extra communication is perhaps the only selling point there, but that's also probably why I'm starting to turn off the idea of this strategy. The Duty Finder sucks when it comes to people communicating, sure, but I see that as behavior which should be fixed, rather than embraced. Although I haven't gotten Steps in a good while, so I'm probably just forgetting how damned frustrating it is when someone doesn't do as I tell them, lol.

[Fyce]

- Increase Vishap's hitbox so shooting at his legs actually matters. Nobody should have to explain to a newbie why shooting at a huge boss legs does nothing. That stuff should be obvious.
- Bump the damage of the canons to 3k/hit instead of 2k. This will not only allow the cannoneers to target the adds outside of Vishap's hitbox more often if the tanks are screwing things up, but will also allow them to close the DPS gap from a failed tower shot or lack of good DPS on the boss's butt.

Problem solved.

[tocsin]

snip.

I think the question here is whether 5 seconds of cannon fire before the AOE timer requires leaving the cannons(about 1-2 actions) is worth pulling a dps off their rotation, sending them up the tower, hitting the DK, and heading back down,. repositioning, and restarting rotation (maybe 20 seconds).

I think a lot of people vastly overestimate the dps of the cannons, especially when they are firing as single target instead of AoE on adds. its ~2k damage, every 2.5-3.5 seconds, which, although slightly better than dps, isn't a huge amount more.

Yes, it shines brightly if you are killing adds, as 2k for every mob is like 40k dps, but 750 dps on single target is not off-the-walls amazing.

[Raeletta]

- Increase Vishap's hitbox so shooting at his legs actually matters. Nobody should have to explain to a newbie why shooting at a huge boss legs does nothing. That stuff should be obvious.
- Bump the damage of the canons to 3k/hit instead of 2k. This will not only allow the cannoneers to target the adds outside of Vishap's hitbox more often if the tanks are screwing things up, but will also allow them to close the DPS gap from a failed tower shot or lack of good DPS on the boss's butt.

Problem solved.

What. Shooting his feet does damage. Either that or I did 0 damage for the entire run and the I100 BLMs we had were doing something incredible.

[KaedrianLiang]

1. No bonus is offered for dealing with first timers.
2. 2 out of 3 first timers can't follow simple instructions drawn in crayon.
3. 1 out of 3 first timers bring forth the argument "don't spoil the mechanics i want to learn" then what about us? the players that are suppose to be helping you push through this. After hearing that argument for the 4th time i had it. /leave every time. Better to eat the 30min penalty than to fail for 1 hour and achieve nothing.


All trials related to the main scenario should be categorized under Main Scenario roulette, and all dungeons and trials under Main Scenario Roulette should always have a minimum 100 tome bonus. That will stop the disbanding. Too late though expansion is just around the corner the devs couldnt even be bothered to give a shiekshroom.

[Felis]

If it exists, people will argue about it.

Maybe SE should then also nerf the slime boss in Copperbell Mine (normal) ? You know, the boss fight with the bomb, that have a one shot kill if it explode in your face.
Or Tam Tara (hard) 2nd boss, the moment someone do an AoE attack.

One shot mechanics exists so the players have to evade specific attacks or to find out how to not trigger them.

All trials related to the main scenario should be categorized under Main Scenario roulette, and all dungeons and trials under Main Scenario Roulette should always have a minimum 100 tome bonus. That will stop the disbanding. Too late though expansion is just around the corner the devs couldnt even be bothered to give a shiekshroom.

This would also include the primal hard trials.