DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[ShaneDawn]

snip

This. I've been telling it so many times; especially in raid type content, people need to be wary that their performance affects 7 other people - either positively or negatively. You'd think people would respect each other enough to do their very best, but nope, even in the end-game content the individualistic and selfish 'mememe' attitude often carries on. What this only shows is a lack of respect towards others; if I join a party, I do my best to be as good an asset to the party as I can. Most of the time, people are more centered in their own sense of 'fun', even if it means slapping 200dps in full 130 gear and forcing more load on the others. That's nothing more than pure laziness and disrespect.

People really need to start respecting each other more.

[SDaemon]

snip

That is great that the players you play with in end game don't do that. But we are talking about the xiv community as a whole, and how it could affect everyone . Not just the players already using 3rd party parsers and what they want. I do not have to bring anything other than my experiences with parsers and how I feel they should be implemented if made in-game.

All you are trying to do is brush a counter - view aside with a specific requirement that has no significance on the discussion at hand.

[Asierid]

Character limit sucks

Yeah, won't happen. People are stupid.

Which is why we suggest the tools to find the problem, correct it if we can, and kick/deal with it if we can't. We're talking about effecting the group as a whole, but of course everyone gets this "me" thing going on that everyone is going to turn into blood sucking vampire zombie assholes and target them the minute this gets implemented.

Or we can deal with trolls and ignorance forever. Which will more than likely be the case.

[Jamein]

All you are trying to do is brush a counter - view aside with a specific requirement that has no significance on the discussion at hand.

I am dismissing your argument for one reason and one reason alone. You are making assumptions based on a different game, and a different community. Just like everyone else within this thread is.
I also gave you a specific example of how a method of measuring someones level of experience was used in one game, but is different in this game. I'm not simply brushing you off, I am giving you examples to prove why your argument falls flat. Meanwhile you've said nothing more than, 'but this is what used to happen'. I'm all for debate if you've got something more relevant to the conversation.

I understand that there will more than likely be a very small minority who abuse the parsing data and ask for absurd numbers for groups, but those people are the ones you avoid in PF anyway because they also ask for ilvl 130 for titan ex and scream '1 mistake = kick'. Not everyone is perfect, but are we to keep a useful and informative tool away from the rest of the playerbase because a small amount of players take it too far?

I am basing my opinion on the experiences I have had in THIS game, with THIS community.

By your logic I should stay away from seafood as this one time I ate some salmon and my insides burned for a week, therefore all salmon is bad and will make me relive those horrific days of toilet websurfing and ring sting.

The past is the past, you can learn from it, but it doesn't mean everything plays out exactly the same. Different time, different community different game. Leave your bias at the door and focus on how that information is being used right now, not how you think it might be used because this one time someone said you suck back in 2001.

[SDaemon]

No I'm basing it off my experience which includes this community. A community that includes more than just end game raiders who would use an in game parser.

You haven't given me any valid argument why my opinion holds less weight and you and I have never even discussed with each other yet about parser because for the last several pages I've been telling you and another how your deflecting is flawed.

If you actually want to finally discuss the impact of parsers and how it should be implemented rather than brush things aside, I'd be happy to post and discuss with you after work.

[RiceisNice]

...

This is a matter of perspective. I've seen people require ilvl for farms that's higher than what drops within that instance. I've seen as high as ilvl 120 requirement for T9, and a good amount of ilvl 130 for T13 (which is impossible for my gear setup, mind you).

[FallenArisen0990]

[Jamein]

snip

Maybe I am reading this wrong here, but are you basing it off of the community that actually uses parsers, that you've played with (mainly in end game as that is where parsers are used the most)? Or simply off the community and how you THINK they will use parsers based on how other games communities used them. That's where I find your argument to fall short.


If you have some actual experience in FF where you've found yourself or others kicked from groups due to someone parsing saying your DPS was too low, and this happens often. Then we have something to go on here as you've clearly experienced a negative side to it. However from what I've read here, and again if I have mis-read it then correct me, but you are saying you've experienced the end game in other games or parsing in other games, and that's good enough to throw into a discussion here. in which case I would argue that's more of a discussion for the psychology/philosophy forums as to why humans act like they do, and I guess we will just never ever see eye to eye on that one because as I said, I'm taking my observations on parsing, from the people who use parsers in THIS game, in THIS community.

As I've said, from my experience the people who go overboard with the parsers are in a very small minority, especially those in PF groups. It just doesn't happen much. Those are the same people who have unrealistic ilvl requirements and who are generally players you tend to avoid in any case. One or two bad eggs don't represent the community as a whole.

As for the impact of parsers, this is what I am discussing now as I am giving you examples of how it is being used and how it is effecting the community. With regards to the implementation, there are a million and one ways for this and I get that this is probably the hardest thing to keep everyone happy. Is it a personal parser? Is it group wide? Is it PF only and disabled in DF? is it only available in end game? Should there be a top 10 leaderboard for each class per encounter so people have a reference point of what they should be parsing? Etc etc.

Personally I think they should just lift the so called 'ban' on the current parsers and let them be used and talked about freely. Literally minimal effort on SE's part. The only downside to this is PS3/4 users get shunned.

This is a matter of perspective. I've seen people require ilvl for farms that's higher than what drops within that instance. I've seen as high as ilvl 120 requirement for T9, and a good amount of ilvl 130 for T13 (which is impossible for my gear setup, mind you).

See above.

[Magusrex]

Also, consider this, parses can not only be used as a sword against dps but a shield too. Say there's someone in your party who doesn't like your rotation and calls you out on it, but if your numbers are good enough you can use them validate your methods.
There's probably more but I don't like to get ranty. Plus that speech looked like the MMO equivilant of a villain's "Survival of the Fittest" speech.

That would be awesome, all I care about is that people make an effort to carry themselves, they don't have to do it my or your way, as long as they try, I don't care how they get results, If they are getting them differently than I am , I get to learn something too win and win.

[siverstorm]

As I've said, from my experience the people who go overboard with the parsers are in a very small minority, especially those in PF groups. It just doesn't happen much. Those are the same people who have unrealistic ilvl requirements and who are generally players you tend to avoid in any case. One or two bad eggs don't represent the community as a whole.

This point gets glazed over and ignored more often than it should.