DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[Galaktica]

At first I was going to suggest adding a dps meter for premades only, but then I realized that would only lead to a billion and a half threads demanding it also be adds to the DF. Either way, I tend to side with the anti-dps meter peeps on this one. The potential drama it invites faaaaaar outweigh the benefits in my opinion. Yes, I get it, not everyone is going to treat the all-holy dps meter as their one true god and kick every player who sins against it. However, when those incidents do occur, and trust me that they will, the backlash will be a lot worse than what's going on in this thread.

Also, it's kinda hard to argue that one is absolutely needed in the first place. We haven't needed one since the game has been out and I find it hard to believe we'll need one in the future. Would it be nice for a select group of people? Yes but a lot of things would be nice for a lot of people. Sadly, we can't always get what we want.

[Welsper59]

This point gets glazed over and ignored more often than it should.

I think it needs to be pointed out that the one or two bad eggs (grossly underestimated number btw) are the ones who are always the most noticeable. Bad behavior is always going to stand out. It just takes one person/group to ruin everything for everyone else out of fear of potential recurrence. This happens in every facet of life, so a video game community is no exception. I mean, look at the TT tournaments and the effect win-trading has on it. All it took was a minimum of 1-3 people to technically ruin it for everyone. It's because of this minority that SE needed to begin taking steps to get around it.

Look at the effect that negative players have on DF. Many of us will say "they don't represent the community as a whole", which is true, but just those handful of people are enough to make us aware of their potentially being there. The people they have already affected have been exposed to this pathetic side, and as a result, we're also made aware of the occurrence. Yeah, they may not represent everyone, but they affect everyone far more than the majority. That's why people tend to not bother addressing that... it should be self-explanatory when you think about it.

[Felis]

how about a grading system at the end of a boss fight similar to the one from hamlet defense?

[siverstorm]

snip

Given our past discussion I don't feel like responding to you, not when you slowly degraded to exceptionally subtle personal insults in your last comments (can't wait to be called oversensitive or something on this one). It's not worth anyone's time or energy having to deal with someone who acts like that. After this I'm not going to respond to you.

We also have tanks and healers that hold runs hostage or intentionally troll runs with the knowledge of how long it takes for a replacement to appear should they get kicked (spoiler alert: a really long bloody time). One or two bad eggs in that situation, yet people cry and moan about the possible parser harassment as if literally everyone is going to do it.

If you let one or two bad eggs define your entire experience how are you even able to manage playing online games? Trolls are a dime a dozen no matter what you play.

You also forget if someone is openly harassing you about your dps and acting like a total fool belittling you, the group can kick that person. If you're actually playing so poorly that the group would rather keep the rude player than you then maybe you should try figuring out what's wrong? Maybe try improving? :O



To avoid that confrontation with a single troll in the future your options are:
a) Quit the game because one meanie hurt your precious feelings
b) I don't know, learn how to play semi-competently?
c) Remain blissfully ignorant.

How many people quit the game because of a single troll they encounted in an online game? If everyone was that fickle the concept of "online gaming" would've died years ago.

Also: TT tourneys are still flawed, win traders can still get top 3 for nothing, the steps SE took for that have yet to show promise. Too bad we can't vote kick people from them.

[SDaemon]

snip

I don't see how you could have played through dungeons, CT, ST, WoD, EX primals and more and not seen the players who would go overboard with parse-ring in there.

It is more than one or two bad eggs. That is a horrible underestimation. Is it everyone? No, hardly. But to downplay it like that is no better than over-reacting and saying it is everyone.

I know how parsers are used, XIV doesn't use them in some new and innovative way, and you just described how the "Don't ask, don't tell" philosophy of Yoshi's is affecting the community, not the open, free and public use of it, where everyone is given and held to one whether they like it or not.

And I have and will still continue to argue that a personal parser is just fine for people to improve their skills, while a toggle for public will allow PF groups, and friends, striving to clear with a means to gauge the group.

[Khemorex]

People lack respect nowadays it seems :P

That goes for both sides ^^

[Welsper59]

Trolls are a dime a dozen no matter what you play.

I just really wanted to point out that this saying implies they are the majority here as well LOL. This outright contradicts your agreement of the "one or two bad eggs" bit. Your argument shouldn't be focused on "one or two", as though it were rare, if you really believe trolls to be so common (which is something I agree with), since it completely contradicts your attempt to belittle how often bad behavior occurs.

The rest of your quote is on the defensive from this perspective. It's hard to find agreement with it, without overlooking your earlier approach of it being such a rare occurrence lol. If I do that, however, then I can almost fully agree with what you said just now lol. Although, I do outright agree about the TT stuff being flawed still. But Yoshi-P said it himself, it's a work-in-progress approach, which they might have just given up on for now since there were supposed to be more changes in 2.56 lol. What we have now was not intended to stop it, just be a band-aid fix to promoting more participation and make people still want to at least try, even if they won't rank (since trying = more MGP and plat cards). I'm assuming they won't act to punish win-trades, as nothing happened with the PvP situation, but just to get participation going and hopefully prevent bad habits somewhere down the line (that ones probably not going to happen).

As a side note, I don't recall making any insults about you on a personal level, even if subtle. I tend to try to criticize arguments, and maybe give examples that result from those arguments, more often than the person. If I did that, then apologies. I'd really like to know what it was I said though, if you can recall it. I do have a habit of being condescending towards arguments presented, and it can sometimes transition over depending on how close to home it hits for the other person.

[Magusrex]

I am not sure what kind of harassment people are claiming is going to happen. Is there going to be a blacklist on the forums where people post the worst parses? Hardly, names will have to be removed or people will get suspended. A nameless parse gets posted....does....nothing. OK, it is posted during a run.....Not harassment...You performance is substandard...still not harassment... your performance is so poor that people would rather dismiss you and wait for the replacement....and this is harassment? I could flip it and say it is harassment that someone knowingly shows up to content they have no chance of completing unless they get carried and call that harassment. No one is going to dismiss you for anywhere near average performance, someone might get kicked for abysmal performance...and I'm OK with that, no difference than a healer or tank who is already getting dismissed for terrible performance. Someone might insult you for abysmal performance, and that is not ideal but hardly harassment, tanks and healers already deal with this.

[Ayuhra]

I am of mixed opinions on this one.

I immigrated here from World of Warcraft where DPS meters are fairly ubiquitous. When I played a damage dealer there I found the meter addons a handy tool and valued them as a way to judge my own performance. I liked being able to see where I needed to tighten my rotation or burst harder and when I topped the charts it was nice knowing I was making a meaningful contribution to a fight.

However...

Damage dealer performance is usually seen as a numbers game. If the tank is holding threat and positioning the boss properly without dying you know he's good. If the healers are keeping people alive without running out of mana they're good. If the boss dies.....eh. Success to everyone, DPS doesn't usually get credit there. Why? Because there are many of us and it takes many of us to down a boss. The way people judge our performance is in seeing how much damage we each were individually putting out, which makes DPS meters sometimes feel dehumanizing. You aren't a player, you are a number. If your number is low go home. It really feels awful and stressful to know that you are a number on a chart everyone is watching like a hawk and they will kick you if you go too low because you are replaceable.

Now do I think low DPS should be carried? No.

But I think that having no charts seems to encourage people to try again, since they can't clearly see where low numbers might be. In WoW people tried again but usually only after gutting half the team.

[Galaktica]

Someone might insult you for abysmal performance, and that is not ideal but hardly harassment, tanks and healers already deal with this.

No, that's literally harassment and exactly the type of bs people don't want to deal. It may not always be as severe as some people make it out to be, but harassment is still harassment no matter which way you cut it. Just because tanks and healers have to deal with it doesn't suddenly make it okay.

That said, honestly, I have to agree with you that people shouldn't show up expecting to get carried and whatnot, but, I would much rather carry someone than potentially watch someone tear someone else apart because "this number was lower than that number." I'm aware that not everyone feels the same way (clearly...), but that's just me.