Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[StrejdaTom]

...

Healer can generate the second highest enmity if the DPS stacked to him, he could still heal himself and hold the mobs.
I can't see a nurse taking scalpel from surgeon to do the surgery. Plus even if it would be difficult, surgeon should still be able to finish the surgery without the nurse.

EDIT: To me you are still just trying to prove your entitlement in "stop being entitled" thread. Which is the problem that most people who disagreed with you had.

[BreathlessTao]

Sweet f×××××× Menphina and all the love potions in the world! Why is this thread still going on does this thread still exist???

[StrejdaTom]

Sweet f×××××× Menphina and all the love potions in the world! Why is this thread still going on does this thread still exist???

Now it is my fault and I am sorry for that.

[Adire]

Healer can generate the second highest enmity if the DPS stacked to him, he could still heal himself and hold the mobs.
I can't see a nurse taking scalpel from surgeon to do the surgery. Plus even if it would be difficult, surgeon should still be able to finish the surgery without the nurse.

EDIT: To me you are still just trying to prove your entitlement in "stop being entitled" thread. Which is the problem that most people who disagreed with you had.

I'd love to see a healer tank some mobs in the game without being grossly overgeared. The wolves in Snowcloak come to mind. SE didn't make tanks just because...tanks are actually needed sometimes.

Also, my point still stands. Would you want the nurse to have equal sway on the surgery to the surgeon? I know I wouldn't. I'd prefer to leave the final say up to the person best suited to do the job and intended to do the job, the surgeon.

Much like I believe the final say on pulling mobs in a tie should be left up to the person intended to do so. Tanks are already by default the ones expected to pull mobs and when others do it, many facepalms occur. So the community preference for tanks to be the "mob pulling professionals" is there. They are intended to pull by both the community (as evidence by pretty much every run you do) and by SE (evidenced in how they're built). You can make the argument that tanks aren't always needed, but they are still the most convenient to use to pull, so that point stands.

And it's not like I only have this view as a tank, when it benefits me to have it. I also have the view as a DPS. I do not pull mobs, I do not demand of the tank, I do not expect that my vote carry more weight than the tank's if a full clear cannot be agreed upon by the majority.

I also do not stop healing the tank as a healer or pull mobs to get my way if there is a tie between interests, as refusing to do my job of healing to get my way would be griefing. The tank deciding to pull the mobs they want to pull is just the tank doing their job because no agreement can be found between players. If the tank happens to pull more than I can handle and dies, then the tank is at fault. If I tank and do this, then I admit I am at fault.

See? I am not entitled. I do not step outside of my role and do not advocate that anyone does it. All I'm advocating here is that everyone leave the tanking decisions to the tank if people can't come to an agreement about what needs to be pulled. I say this as someone who mains a DPS class in fact, not as someone who mains a tank class. So I am not biased.

[synesthetic]

Sweet f×××××× Menphina and all the love potions in the world! Why is this thread still going on does this thread still exist???

Because.

Duty calls.

[nuyu11]

Because.

Duty calls.

Oh Gawd I love this....

[ThanMazus]

There's that inaccurate logic again. Want me to quote some posts for you that didn't agree with me, but I didn't accuse them of not reading my post? Want me to quote some posts that criticize me for things I covered already in previous posts?

I'm only accusing people of not reading who post things that show they haven't read :P. I haven't been repeating myself for fun.

When they show that they haven't? By disagreeing? :P

(also I've read all 40 pages of this awful thread)

[Adire]

When they show that they haven't? By disagreeing? :P

(also I've read all 40 pages of this awful thread)

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Whoa, whoa, whoa... Hold on there, Tanking Friend.

I understand that the Tank in a run has the choice in the matter of what to pull and what not, this much is true as you stated.

However, we gotta stop and look at the actions taken.

Yes, just outright saying "no skipping anything" is rude and demanding.

-Walks up to her and pokes her right in the middle of the breastplate- But what was done about it?

-Takes out her sword and shield and throws it to the ground- The comment was dropped like a bass beat, or much like my weapons here, and the whole run was now in jeopardy because egos got in the way.

If the DPS had been asked, hell... even in a sarcastic way, to just add in a please or to reword their request, I'm sure things would have been straightened out.

But the fact that their request was flat out ignored and that egos got in the way...

It's obvious where the blame should mostly go.

We didn't ignore their request otarolgam :/

Though I will say looking back, I should have asked him to rephrase that demand and make it a request. Didn't think about it at the time, can't do anything about that now. Though judging by their reactions after, and the type of person it takes to make a demand of someone rather than a request of them, I'm not so confident he would have been mature enough to do so. Obnoxious people aren't known for being reasonable or admitting fault after all.

We killed the mobs he pulled the first time though, gave them the option to AoE but continue being jerks, so we did give him options. He told us no and threatened us, saying he would only accept a full clear with no AoE. We did not ignore their request, they ignored what we wanted though.

Why should I shoulder most of the blame when I was the one willing to compromise?

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I agree with OP to a certain degree. Lately, I've become huge fan of inspecting the tanks gear. Especially when I cue as BLM most tanks that I get in a dungeon with pull 5-6 mobs and even more than that and expect BLM to aoe so I naturally follow suit. Lately, I've been getting vote dismissed by a lot of lower ilevel tanks who get upset because I refuse to AOE and no amount of quelling strikes I use will keep the hate off of me even if I decided to level archer to required level to get that ability if I outgear you. More to the point, I do agree that as DPS we should know when and when not to AOE. However, sometimes, tanks should at least be mindful if a dps chooses or chooses not to AOE. Some DPS are lacking in the manpower needed for successful AOE rotations. In short, just take the time to ask people how to proceed through the dungeon before doing it. It usually works better that way in a long run.

Yes, if a dps is taking aggro from a tank, they should not keep AoEing. DD had me synced down, but with Shield Oath and flash spam and decent gear, any PLD doing that shouldn't have much trouble holding aggro, especially against a BRD (as the dps I mentioned was).

I would have been fine with proceeding even if he chose not to AoE had he acted like a decent person towards me or apologized for his initial attitude. He really had no reason to avoid AoEing given that I could have held aggro easily though, and given that more than enough mobs had been pulled to warrant him AoEing, but if treated with some respect, I still would have done as he wished. If I'm not mistaken, BRD is actually the second most powerful AoE class not counting WHM as well. Quick Nock has a decent potency even on its own vs 9 mobs.

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I feel like people are missing about how healers feel in this.
If you die because you pulled an overwhelmingly huge amount of mobs as a healer, then no one get mad at me over it.
What needs to happen is the tanks need to ask the HEALER'S on how big and small they should pull.
Or; if the healer nicely asks for small pulls or so because they're under geared or whatever reason, you either suck it up
or eat the 30. Not everyone can go at a tanks pace because they assume the healer can get on their level yet.
Some tanks are butt's. They really are and are not mindful, DPS's are too. Because once I did Bray, I said I couldn't do big pulls yet...I struggled.
I asked for smaller pulls then the DPS said "No just do big ones." and one time I got told I sucked as a healer because he pulled such a large amount of mobs
I literally used lustrate 6 times and SC heal and E4E still died...so...there's that.

I think you're getting the wrong idea about me/my post. I never, ever, ever pull more than I think the healer can handle. If I die because it's more than the healer can handle, I do not fuss. I take the blame willingly and admit I made an idiot choice. I suppose I should have clarified that in that post, though I did not have the benefit of hindsight at the time. I always take the healer into account when I pull. I was just saying with that post that is the tank who actually is supposed to DO the act of pulling. Therefore, it's my belief that the act of pulling is most within the realm of the tank's job. If the tank dies because they pull too much or make the healer uncomfortable, then it's their fault as well in that situation. But it's still the job of the tank to pull, and at the same time the job of the tank to take the blame if they pull too much. The tank doesn't have to listen to the healer when they pull, but they'll end up dead or stressing them out beyond necessary. Consequences and whatnot.

This situation was unique as well in that DD offers a way to easily do larger pulls without taking a considerable amount of damage.

Thank you for clarifying and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

What can be learned here from this hell-spiraled topic is...and what is one of the biggest problems in this game is:
Communication.
Now, reading OP's post, she says that the DPS said "Don't skip anything." Okay if I was a tank I'd ignore him or kick him because his attitude only got worse.
People need to learn to be nice. I can't tolerate people being mean to me and crap in dungeons.
You don't tell me to do anything unless you ask me politely.
"Can we please do a full run please? ^^" If I get a damn smiley I'll do it. It's all on how you approach people. I don't see why people are fighting with the OP.
If a tank doesn't wanna do full clear...Oh well? I mean I guess you either deal with it or leave. Go level a tank then. We all follow the beat of your drum most of the time. In the matter of full run or exp run. No real choice lol.
The only thing I see is that, it's not that huge of a deal and you should of just forgot about it. You can see that releasing your feelings
here on the main forums will get you sent to the stake real quick or you'll become victim to the Logic Fallacy of AD Hominem.

TL;DR: The DPS in this situation was an a**butt, he didn't get his way, started to pull mobs like a baby, OP try to go along, still went to be a baby and then hell happened.
It's DF you get bads and hard-heads everywhere. I just wanted to join the topic since everyone was talking about it.
Bye! Lol.

No need to apologize Mugiawara that post was one of the easier ones to misunderstand, even if read thoroughly and thought deeply about.

I find it refreshing that you posted with civility even though you didn't like the post as you had understood it, so thank you for that and for being understanding. So many have resorted to personal jabs immediately :/

Glad we agree, no one should have to tolerate being demanded of or being treated like an object.

Edit: And yeah, I should really stop posting about these situations on the forums. There are some very ready to pounce people here.

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Want some more examples of me not accusing people of not reading when they disagreed with me, Than? If you don't like these, I can find you some more! Or want me to post some proof that people really haven't been reading in many cases? I'll be happy to provide that too if you wish.

If you didn't see these posts...well, I think you know by now what I'm going to say

Hopefully you'll stop claiming that I accuse everyone who disagrees with me of not reading now. The proof that I don't is here, if you're willing to accept it.

[Seiryuukishi]

Snip

Thanks for the concern but i reckon at my age (32. No it's not that old, lol) I tend to be less quick to anger. I used to fight at the smallest things when I was younger. I guess I was 22 when it hit me that it's unnecessary to be that way but I also have a temper which I try to keep in check. Sometimes it doesn't work out I am afraid. As a rule of thumb I tend to let insults/deprivation of character roll off my back like water but in this case I couldn't take it anymore. I genuinely meant well and all I get is some mutton head trying to spin meanings to suit its twisted agenda. In short, I snapped.

To put it bluntly me getting banned from a forum where a large amount of the player base come to hurl crap at each other like it's a snowball fight isn't really a big deal to me. Time and again many have shown they don't care for logical or reasonable conclusions to conflicts. The only thing they respond to, as usual, is anger. And it saddens me...

[AriaEnia]

This thread is mainly about attitude, ego, testosterone, etc. Not much about the role of the class. Okay, now can we move on?