Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[Adire]

I dunno if this should qualify for the question... It just sorta popped out at me.

I was rebellious against his demands at first, yes. But if you read things I've posted after that, I've said many times that I picked up the mobs that he pulled and that I offered him compromise. That quote is only suitable if you don't read or ignore what I said after it.

The only "rebellion" here was that I was initially irked at his demands and refused to bow to his demands immediately without talking to him first, and took a moment to try to figure out what to say. What I said after we got to the nearby crystal buff was the compromise question.

And when he pulled the mobs, I still helped him out and got him his experience.

That quote you mentioned would be for great for proving me to be unreasonable and intending only to do things my way if you neglected these facts that are present in posts after it. I can quote these posts if needed.

Quoting only part of what I've said is much like when politicians do it to each other: It fools the voters who don't know any better and takes things out of context.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Sigh. It's threads like these that make me glad I quit tanking. What's the fun in queuing up for anything when I'm immediately vilified before I can say hello?

On topic, the OP was not particularly in the wrong, at all. While she may not have handled it perfectly, ultimately the DPS in question was why everything went south.

[Adire]

Yeah, I know your pain Thunda. I've already said that I'm going to stop tanking for anyone except friends myself.

I'm surprised people aren't letting this thread die given that fact.

It's clear a lot of people are judging me to be a jerk tank despite the fact that I always do full clears if asked nicely or if outvoted, so I am removing myself from the pool of tanks. Problem solved in their minds, right?

You'd think that would satisfy them

[GenJoe]

It's clear a lot of people are judging me to be a jerk tank despite the fact that I always do clears if asked nicely or if outvoted

I don't know why people are so offended by that attitude tbh..
I never do clears unless a friend specifically wants it.. Other random people from duty finder? Couldn't care less, they're just pawns if you ask me.. Just the fact you do clears on request or outvoted says you've a lot more patience than me.. I don't deal with that crap, I'll eat a 30 minute penalty if I have to, I'm in it to git er done, not lollygagging around.

I don't say this purely from a tank's point of view.. I play healer also.. I do the same in that case, of course I won't FORCE a tank to not pull extra mobs.. Same when I DPS, I don't see the point of a full clear tbh, you get a bit more exp so what? You want exp that bad? queue again..



Now, let the flaming start..

[Seiryuukishi]

Besides my overwhelming surprise that this charade has continued on as long as it has it occurs to me that no one has stated the obvious yet, so without further ado...

Let's break it down from what little we know. For the sake of argument we'll call them "facts" to ease the more sensitive of emotional state. Dzemael Darkhold starts. OP (tank) and buddy (dps) are there as a pair. Dps in question is there with his buddy (healer). Comment "No Skipping Anything" is made and regardless of its context (general, asking without proper usage, or demand. It's left to interpretation) sets the stage for, IMO, a gross display of human affairs. OP ignores comment and proceeds by his/her own admission. Mobs are pulled, dps in question doesn't like being ignored and pulls extra. Initial + extras are killed and then the "talks" begin. "Compromise" is offered and summarily declined/rejected (interpretation, once again).

"Threats" (I still get a chuckle out of that one) are made if "demands" are not met and after whatever amount of time elapses, "talks" have eroded to the point of non-existance and dps in question and healer buddy leave. (I reckon that about covers the key points of the situation presented to us).

Problem number one: Assumption. I shouldn't have to say this but the rule of thumb with assuming is that'll make an a$$ out of u and me. You cannot base tone/context off of incomplete speech. Some people don't/can't be bothered with proper or as best as you can get English. Some barely know it at all.

Problem number two: No confirmation/communication. Even had it been a "demand" there was no way for you to know it was such without further investigation. You cannot use later events to justify the assumption because your having ignored the player probably annoyed the piss out of him/her.

Problem number three: Attitudes going into talks. If it wasn't apparent by the time the enemies were dead anything that had to be said was pretty much dead on the floor. You asked the bard to AOE but in his/her mind he asked for full clear. So in his/her mind why should s/he do as you ask if you weren't going to do the same? Ah, but the compromise made... that's the kicker. You call the comment he made at the beginning a "demand" but by this time the air was so thick with tension any compromise would have been seen as the same to the player. Roughly like this: "AOE or no full clear." is essentially how it worked out in his/her head. So s/he responded in like manner (they believed) with the so called "threats".

Problem number four: Blatant disrespect for one another. This is the one that is going to be denied until judgment day. By the time all else had transpired, lets face it, neither of you were going to shake hands on anything.

DISRESPECT is what brought this madness to its anticlimactic end. Why? Because humans can't seem to humble themselves long enough to think logically anymore. Neither of you stopped before it got out of hand to try and resolve it, no use in denying it. BOTH of you were dead wrong. Not just him a whole lot and you a little bit or vice versa. BOTH. You two couldn't be bothered to show the slightest hint of mutual human respect towards one another and communicate about it until it was so far gone that Ghandi couldn't fix it for you. Maybe he did "demand" it of you. So what? All you had to do is type out "If you ask me nicely I'll do it.", but you had to be the "rebel" and it cost you. You couldn't be the bigger man/woman and take the high road. You wanted to show your a$$.

That garnered the response you got in like kind. S/he could've taken the time to type longer and if English wasn't the native language it should've been made known. Given the fact that most assume everyone knows what they're doing the groups tend to run off the moment the barrier falls. But even then it could have been typed out in the loading screen. Neither of you are innocent, at all. It's just another classic case of egotism at play.

[Adire]

Problem number one: I respectfully disagree. "no skipping anything" is a demanding statement in my and seemingly in the opinions of most on the thread, on both sides. But let's say I'm wrong. When dealing with humans, you should address humans as humans. You should take the time (a very tiny amount of time in this case) to speak to a human like they're a human. It doesn't take an English major to turn "no skipping anything" into a sentence with obvious good intent, to turn it into an obvious request rather than a (possible?) demand. Simply adding "please" in would work. And I agree. Online it can be hard to tell what people mean, which is why it's important to use etiquette. He did not. Simply the fact that it wasn't worth using etiquette towards us in his mind is insulting. If he had the English ability and time to type those words literally as the barrier was going down, he could have added in "please" or something. There is no excuse to show such an inconsiderate attitude towards me or even to show such apathy in how he chooses to address me, no matter how much you try to justify it. If you're wanting someone to do something for you, you should take the time to show some modicum of effort in how you speak to them.

Problem number two: I am not perfect. I took the time to think of what to say, instead of what I wanted to say immediately. I exercised self control, this is a good thing. I helped him kill the mobs he pulled. This should have "redeemed" the one so called wrongdoing I did by not responding to him immediately or doing what he wanted immediately. If I was egotistical and unreasonable, I would not have done that. I would have let him tank them himself.

Problem number three: Please refer to the above. I helped him kill the mobs he pulled. Thus, I helped him get clear up to that point. I did not pull the mobs myself, but I still dealt with them for him. So, we were giving him what he wanted so far. The very first thing said after "no skipping anything" was when I asked him to AoE. Second, I don't remember what exactly I said when I asked him to AoE, but it was something along the lines of "We're here to get this done ASAP, so would you please AoE? We're going to be here a while if we do a clear for you and don't have AoE." Does this sound like a demand to you? This was followed by my friend saying something about AoEing, asking him why he wasn't or something, followed by him saying he would not be AoEing because he has one AoE, followed by me explaining that even his one AoE against groups of this size would be more damage going out than single targeting. When he made it clear he would not be AoEing despite us asking him to in a civil manner and mentioning we would clear it for him, we continued with the dungeon as I wanted. He then told me if I didn't do optional pulls, he would pull and have the healer let me die. If this threat "makes you chuckle" because you don't see it as a threat, then I don't know what to say. It seems like a threat to me.

Problem number four: This may surprise you, but I'm not denying that I disrespected him by this point. He had lost my respect after he refused to do anything that wasn't 100% what him and the healer wanted. I was willing to forgive his attitude if he was willing to AoE, he was not, and the way he responded to say he was not was extremely rude. So yes, he had lost my respect by this point.

I've said it countless times. I respect people by default. I do full clears, ALWAYS, if asked nicely. I do them ALWAYS if outvoted. We were not outvoted or treated nicely, yet I was still willing to do one in this situation if he had accepted my small compromise. He refused it and continued to disrespect me and my friend to the point where my friend left the dungeon.

I was not a true rebel. I helped him kill mobs he pulled. I tried to discuss things with him when we were inside the crystal buff. The only "rebellion" (which I used the word in my OP lightheartedly in the first place, you are taking it far too seriously) was that I didn't immediately jump as high as he demanded me to. I wanted to figure out what to say first, gauge his attitude, and try to compromise with him before doing what he wanted. Is this rebellion in a way? Yes, because I was not giving him 100% of what he wanted immediately without doing these things first. Is that "unfair" rebellion? I don't think so, personally.

I'm sorry, but for someone so against "assuming", you are really trying to make me look like a monster despite that I showed at the time that I'd be reasonable, and despite that I've shown that I am in this thread if treated with respect. I have admitted that I did not respond in the most optimal manner due to my faults as a human, I am not some egotistical beast who refuses to believe I am perfect like you are assuming I am trying to say. As much as I wish I had responded immediately to him with the perfect response rather than take a moment to figure out what to do, I didn't. But I did not have evil intents.

But don't worry, as I've said, this rotten person will not be plaguing the DF anymore as a tank. The many people I've given full clears to would like to thank the forums and the DPS for that I'm sure. You've gotten justice done today.

[PrimeEvilPanda]

A lot of people mistaken the forums for a blog.

[GenJoe]

This is precisely the reason why I don't even try to hold a facade of being a decent human being on the forums.. The moment you start being apologetic and show compromise, people want you to bend over and listen to their scolding and start imposing their views on how you should behave, carry the weight of the World on your shoulders.. Well, Atlas can't carry the World forever, you gotta learn to shrug it off at some point... I suppose Atlas can, but hey, we're only humans right?

Well of course, first and foremost reason is that I'm just a bad person.. obviously.


OP, no amount of your explanation will be enough for some people. Some people will want you to be a textbook hero, offering your time for free to whoever NEEDS it and not who DESERVES it.

[otarolgam]

-Slams head against the keyboard and groans-

Look, I'm not advocating for you to walk away from Tanking. That's the farthest thing I would want to see you do.

We need as many tanks in this game as we can get. So please don't give up on Tanking.

[Adire]

snip

I'm really starting to believe that is a sad truth GenJoe :/. I can see myself becoming a very jaded, cold player if I stick around here much longer.

You must not be that bad though ;3 you've been sticking around on this thread for a while now, offering your input, not letting me drown in the responses telling me how terrible of a person I am. I wish you were on Balmung, I'd hug you for that!

Oh well, if we're evil rotten people, I guess we'll just form a club.

-Slams head against the keyboard and groans-

Look, I'm not advocating for you to walk away from Tanking. That's the farthest thing I would want to see you do.

We need as many tanks in this game as we can get. So please don't give up on Tanking.

I know you aren't otarolgam. You wouldn't believe how many people are pretty much saying I must overall be a bad person, an "example of what's wrong with tanks", an "entitled hypocrite", that my feelings don't matter, etc because of what happened in this situation. The people who think I'm to blame for this situation are one thing, I disagree about most ways people are saying I had bad intent from the beginning, and know that I didn't, and provided evidence of that, but there are plenty of people who have pretty much insisted and assumed I must be a bad person in general and normally.

It's pretty crazy. And I can say I've encountered the most abuse as a tank, not a healer or dps. And I main DPS, so I've had far more time put in, and as such should have had more bad experiences as a DPS if the abuse levels were even between roles.

To make the large amount of people who are doing what I just mentioned happy, and to save myself the headache, it's probably best that I just stick to tanking for friends.

You should have seen some of the tags for this thread before they got removed...very immature and hateful. "Bitch please", "idiot tank", to name a couple.