Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[Jim_Berry]

People who buy clears are desperate for their wins. They go as far as buying gil to pay for the clear.

Personally, I don't involve myself in how people progress. Only negative thing about me NOT buying clear is that I can't join many groups due to "no sol" message.

There is a guy who took forever to get his T10 clear. Now, his PF has the "no sol" bonus. Sad, if you ask me.

[AdamFyi]

Only negative thing about me NOT buying clear is that I can't join many groups due to "no sol" message.

It isn't that you can't join those parties; you actually can if you are confident enough that you can clear the fight without any problems. You can discuss it with the party leader to make an exception - and a lot of players do give you a chance! The "no soldiery" message is just to deter inexperienced players from sneaking into the party and getting a carry (which they won't be able to because either the party would kick them once they see the message, or they would quickly notice it once the fight starts).

It's not a superior attitude on our parts, it is a fact given how players seem to be in this Final Fantasy.

Technically speaking, elitism does go both ways, and you're showing just a smidge of it. You're throwing a temper tantrum over those players. They may help out players on days they feel like it, but just because they do not wish to help on that particular moment when someone asks, it does not make them a bad player. There are days where even I would want to farm, and some days where I would tag along on the DF to help some players.

Helping other players is optional; it's not an obligation.

[LunaHoshino]

It isn't that you can't join those parties; you actually can if you are confident enough that you can clear the fight without any problems. You can discuss it with the party leader to make an exception - and a lot of players do give you a chance! The "no soldiery" message is just to deter inexperienced players from sneaking into the party and getting a carry (which they won't be able to because either the party would kick them once they see the message, or they would quickly notice it once the fight starts).

I can vouch for this; I have personally been in many farm parties that allowed someone without a clear to come along after they spoke to the leader. And, in almost every case, they performed flawlessly.

[Yukiko]

(..) but it will surely take more time and efforts to get the kill. (..)

Can you please explain whats the difference between waiting for customers and helping others in open parties?
You cant do both because once in group it locks you out from the other group, or are you one of those who is "helping" and then leaving with the words: "Sorry, FC is calling..."
Mostly empty groups in PF when they use words with "training" or such... To fill such a group sometimes needs hours!

[HorseBoots]

Considering that the lockout from repeating runs for raids is being abolished in Alexander. I think this topic is a bit of a mute point. People buy runs because they want a clear and people sell runs because they are basically handing off their weekly loot in favor of gil. However in the last stream they already mentioned that Alexander functions off CT rules. Meaning you can rerun each "turn" as many times as you'd like, but you can't roll on anything after you got your one drop for the week. Anyone in a decent FC with an active branch raiding, could just as easily pool in players together from their groups of friends and get a farm going. Would sell groups go away completely? No, not really. But it will become far less common and far cheaper just because the whole raiding process is becoming more open for the core demographic.

[Mimoza]

@Yukiko What i mean is : it takes more time to learn a strat by yourself (even with experienced persons in your team) than it takes to be corpse carried.
When i join a training party, i stay until the party get a win or disband, even if it means i will miss some selling party at the same moment. Tbh i don't really care about gils, when i'm doing a duty, it can be a dungeon, a primal, a training PF or a sale, i'll keep playing until we win or someone die behind his computer. I can't bear myself the guys who are leaving like "oops sorry my cat is one fire, gtg" after one wipe.
You know, i'm not doing a PF all day long saying "Selling primal + coil", i also enjoy playing this game just for fun. For example this afternoon i joined a T11 training party. We did one full timer, reaching last phase multiple times, but at the end one tank had to leave and we just disbanded the party. Since i was sad for the person who made the team, i proposed to help him tonight when ppl from my static will be online so we can help him more efficiently and of course for free.
Most of the things which have been said on this topic are true but you can't really stop ppl from buying runs. But i agree that the shout spamming from kill sellers is annoying as hell, hopefully that's not yet the case on Cerberus so far.

[KaedrianLiang]

op

Nah is the ones buying sell groups hurting the economy. The sellswords are merely opportunists, because of the demand.

[Gardes]

Considering that the lockout from repeating runs for raids is being abolished in Alexander. I think this topic is a bit of a mute point. People buy runs because they want a clear and people sell runs because they are basically handing off their weekly loot in favor of gil. However in the last stream they already mentioned that Alexander functions off CT rules. Meaning you can rerun each "turn" as many times as you'd like, but you can't roll on anything after you got your one drop for the week. Anyone in a decent FC with an active branch raiding, could just as easily pool in players together from their groups of friends and get a farm going. Would sell groups go away completely? No, not really. But it will become far less common and far cheaper just because the whole raiding process is becoming more open for the core demographic.

That's only for alexander NORMAL. It will be a steamroll place that you get your weekly gear from, just like the towers. Alexander HARD is another thing. We don't know how it will work but I'd imagine that the item restrictions will be stricter and entry may have restrictions again. But tackling alexander hard would solely be for gear now that normal can provide the story for people who dont have the combat/social skill to tackle hard.

People buying clears for alex hard won't have "just want clear for the story" as an excuse anymore. They simply want the gear without the work.

[Osmond]

No, cause it's nothing more than a option. What you do w/ your gil is your choice. May as well look at it as a win-win. The FC builds gil for their company, the buyer goes off not worrying about doing it again and can do what they really want to do.

[ShaneDawn]

No, cause it's nothing more than a option. What you do w/ your gil is your choice. May as well look at it as a win-win. The FC builds gil for their company, the buyer goes off not worrying about doing it again and can do what they really want to do.

Except more often than not, these run buyers join farm parties, expecting to get carried there too and ruin the run for 7 other people. I've seen it happen a plenty of times, it's not always just some guy who barely cleared the instance, but the run buyers are also an actual thing.

I think this kind of indifference/laziness is the problem why thing such as run-selling and RMT exist. Look at Japan; apparently the amount of RMT and run-selling is close to non-existent there. Has to have something to do with the community and cultural differences.