Why bring MNK to anything anymore?

[MrCookTM]

This has been pointed out a thousand times before but I can't stress it enough. Monk was absolutely invaluable during progression this patch, so invaluable that you barely saw any group without one, double monk even being one of the most popular group compositions early on. Now? Stuff is on farm, it doesn't matter at all really what you bring to a raid. Ppl do T12 with 4 Blm's just for the lulz. If anything the one to complain is still drg, even post buff, because even though drg's dps went up quite a bit and survibability is very good now, he still has slightly lower dps and significantly less utility than the other melee jobs.

Mnk and nin are still on par and while it's true that mnk requires more work than nin to reach those numbers, it's still not hard. Every mnk knows the tricks to keep stacks for every encounter by know and is able to execute them.

[Ephier]

This has been pointed out a thousand times before but I can't stress it enough. Monk was absolutely invaluable during progression this patch, so invaluable that you barely saw any group without one, double monk even being one of the most popular group compositions early on. Now? Stuff is on farm, it doesn't matter at all really what you bring to a raid. Ppl do T12 with 4 Blm's just for the lulz. If anything the one to complain is still drg, even post buff, because even though drg's dps went up quite a bit and survibability is very good now, he still has slightly lower dps and significantly less utility than the other melee jobs.

Mnk and nin are still on par and while it's true that mnk requires more work than nin to reach those numbers, it's still not hard. Every mnk knows the tricks to keep stacks for every encounter by know and is able to execute them.

My group did progression with no MNK, so while they were useful, they definitely were not invaluable, especially after DRG buffs in 2.45.

[MrCookTM]

My group did progression with no MNK, so while they were useful, they definitely were not invaluable, especially after DRG buffs in 2.45.

Invaluable, not neccessary to win. Also I was talking about very early progression, when ppl stepped into fcob with (pentamelded) 110 because not enough poetics/coil drops yet. That was also before drg buffs.

[Craiger]

Invaluable, not neccessary to win. Also I was talking about very early progression, when ppl stepped into fcob with (pentamelded) 110 because not enough poetics/coil drops yet. That was also before drg buffs.

This^

There is an interview with 2 players from the FC Collision somewhere on Youtube, and they mentioned at one point that they think Dragon Kick and Mantra is OP, and that maybe even they should remove/nerf those effects, or give similar to other jobs...

We are talking about the group that got world first on T12, world second on T10, T11 and T13... So if they think it's that good, then I trust those words.

Later on when people get more gear, this doesn't apply to the same extent, but we are still talking about a reduction in magic taking (DK) and a very useful increase in healing (Mantra)... It's not like you become invincible as soon as you get some gear.

For your overall group DPS, the difference in DPS is so little that it won't really make a big difference. On the other hand, reducing magic damage and having mantra can easily be the difference between a wipe and a clear.

....
On the last official census monks were dead last amongs with warriors as the less played jobs so its not like everyone and their mother are playing monks

That's just because it's a hard job to play, and that scares a lot of players... If you could look at just people who actually raid, and not casuals, I think that number would go up some.

Like have been said, pretty much every early progression group in the game uses a MNK or two... How does that translate to them being under-powered?

Also, I don't think many here have actually said they don't want them to make some changes to MNK... but the thing is, if they are to increase their DPS to be above Nin and DRG, then they first have to either nerf DK, or they have to give the others some other utility that evens it out some, otherwise MNKs would be OP.

It's not MNK's maximum performance that needs changing, what needs changing is how easy they get to that maximum. Like you said, sometimes you lose your GL stacks without being able to do a thing, in those cases you should be able to either regain them faster than now (can't always rely on PB), or hold on to the stacks in another way. Don't want them to increase the GL duration though, cause MNKs should keep their high risk play style. That's based on the current abilities though... with heavensward, they might have to increase that duration for the new rotation we will be using.

I would actually like it if they did balance the Dragon Kick, and made MNK top of single target DPS again. MNKs are meant to be kings of DPS after all.

[RathSkybreaker]

My group did progression with no MNK, so while they were useful, they definitely were not invaluable, especially after DRG buffs in 2.45.

He's refering to day one progression where DRG was worthless and MNK was the holy grail of DPS at the time.

[Ephier]

He's refering to day one progression where DRG was worthless and MNK was the holy grail of DPS at the time.

NIN did more damage than it does now before 2.45 . . .

[Ooshima]

NIN did more damage than it does now before 2.45 . . .

Probably because of better tweaking due to experience.

Back then majority of the NINs aren't pre-casting huton, still casting Raiton every time instead of just using Shuriken if there's lags, etc. A lot of things are still pretty crude, now it is much more refined.