Why bring MNK to anything anymore?

[Crescent_Dusk]

You know, it's not like I didn't mention this in other threads about this discussion. Monk still does top DPS if you want to pit a well versed NIN vs. a well versed Monk. Want to know
something? NIN and a MNK in the same party. Who's going to hit the TP draught first? The NIN will. Why is that? Because they only have Invigorate. But the MNK only has Invigorate too! But wait..! The NIN has Goad, they SHOULD be giving this to the MNK which goes into the overall DPS lasting longer.

T10 - Only time losing stacks is if you're picked for wild charge(this is potentially avoidable, but the window is very, very strict)
T11 - You don't have to go the full flank for a positional movement. So even if you're tethered, you can still get positional. Losing GL3 shouldn't be an issue here though.
T12 - Transition into Bennu Phase. You will lose GL3. But you can PB here and just start over again. Just make sure to end on Twin or Snap as the last Bennu dies to maintain GL3 as Phoenix comes to play again.
T13 - Divebombs. Loss of GL3 is obvious. You can pick and choose when to use you're PB, but I usually just save it for Bahamut returning for Teraflare(Though I think the span between first DB and Tera is more than three minutes, so two PB could be ready if used at first set of adds)

Is the loss of GL3 fair because of mechanics? No. Not at all. I certainly agree that we should have a stack by stack loss or another way of achieving GL3 or PB(There's a PVP skill that does grant PB which is rather nice. Another which instantly grants GL3). I'm not fond of building stacks again because of mechanics while everyone else can just go ham from the get go after mechanics. People speak of high risk and high reward, but I guarantee you people will hate you for trying to play risky and ignoring mechanics for the sake of keeping your DPS.

I don't think people are disputing monk can't compete in single target DPS. What people are saying is that for the effort necessary to compete, it's completely disproportionate rewards.

I mean, you have a fully geared ninja from what I can see, is it not less annoying as a ninja to go into an encounter where your self buffs are not predicated on hitting a target? Where you don't have as heavy a ramp up?

And is it not more convenient to play a ninja or dragoon where bursting down adds is required? Are ninja and dragoon not better off in aoe circumstances?

The problem as I think everybody knows isn't the single target, it's just the frustration of playing a game where bosses randomly rotate to select a target, where large aoe is spammed in melee range closing off positionals sometimes (so it means you are more reliant than ever on a tank positioning the mob so you can have maximum uptime on flanks and back).

What's the point of having similar single target to a ninja when the ninja can also burst, has less ramp up, and has better aoe? I mean look at Arm of the Destroyer it's such a pitiful spell and rockbreaker is a cone not a circle.

It's sort of the same question that comes with why playing a summoner over a black mage when the black mage has similar single target capacity but can burst, has better aoe, and better target switching.

[RathSkybreaker]

Just gonna drop this here. Monk is definitely viable in most fights still, Dragon Kick specifically this patch has been invaluable, however, I think it's fair to say that Nin can beat out Mnk in most fights, simply due to the fact that they don't have to worry about stacks at all. Good monks can negate this, but good ninjas can beat out monks as well. Going to post a parse, names are cut out for obvious reasons, but it's from a top guild. Not going to read through 13 pages of people yelling at each other that MNK is better than everything, it is definitely a contender for top DPS, but I feel like we're finally at a place where the jobs are mostly balanced and they bring their own benefits without too many reasons to bring one over the other, it's a good place to be if you want to mix your comp up a bit.

http://puu.sh/hstal/57d4e49406.jpg

btw this was a 6:23 long T11 Parse. Sorry I cut that part out.

[Maero]

Of course some of you Monks would take the opportunity in this thread to cry that Monks need buffs... my god you guys complain the most, lol
And no Monks are not always highest single target damage as i have seen Ninjas parse much higher then equally geared monks.
The mentality of should or always is #1 in some people... Just play the class that you enjoy

[Lorielle]

What's the point of having similar single target to a ninja when the ninja can also burst, has less ramp up, and has better aoe? I mean look at Arm of the Destroyer it's such a pitiful spell and rockbreaker is a cone not a circle.

I can't argue Arm of the Destroyer, but it's just meant to silence more than it is to AoE spam. Though that's more of a last resort(like back in T2 days). Rockbreaker is a good 'AoE' skill. Yes, it's not a circle, but you can still effectively use the cone just as a NIN could Death blossom. Really, the only thing NIN has over on Monk there is Doton.

Though I personally don't care much for the AoE department since it isn't Monk's thing. I'm sure everyone can agree to that. Yes, I do agree playing Ninja is far more convenient in actions taken, benefits to the group, and damage given. As I mentioned, I never felt that it was fair that everyone else can just get straight into the big numbers while Monk suffers from "standing still too long". Be it from their own mistakes or because they are forced to do so(Look at you Earth Shaker). I still feel that MNK -can- still be stop DPS given a perfect world. However, it will always come down to how many times they are forced to do mechanics. If they are forced to do mechanics, it's no wonder NIN will come out on top. If NIN forced to do mechanics, then obviously MNK will. If neither? Chances are it will favor the Monk in the end.

Of course some of you Monks would take the opportunity in this thread to cry that Monks need buffs... my god you guys complain the most, lol
And no Monks are not always highest single target damage as i have seen Ninjas parse much higher then equally geared monks.
The mentality of should or always is #1 in some people... Just play the class that you enjoy

Gear does make a difference, but two equally geared people does not mean one is not doing their rotations properly compared to the other. This also falls upon the number of crits that happen. So RNG also favors this. We do play the classes we enjoy. As a Monk, we just don't like that we're forced to lose a HUGE amount of DPS to do mechanics while everyone else is minimal.

[Odowla]

You know, a lot of the top progressing groups absolve the monks of the mechanics where possible, right?

Also Monks get the most use out of cooldowns.. and with Heavensward coming, IF we get GL4, no one will compete with us; with ONLY GL4 and using blood for blood, B4B is 16.2% increased damage.. multiplicative stacking is what we have going for us. Just learn to abuse your cooldowns, and maximize the damage you're dealing during uptimes. Get ready for the Greased 4, its going to be insane.

[Lorielle]

You know, a lot of the top progressing groups absolve the monks of the mechanics where possible, right?

In a perfect world. But this is only with your progression groups. Let's speak of the overall picture. People will prefer you to not put stress on everyone instead of carrying the mindset of "Healer will take care of it". Also "where possible" is a very rare instance. Legitly the only one I can name is covering a Monk for ES for P1. But if they get picked a second time, then what~?

[Odowla]

In a perfect world. But this is only with your progression groups. Let's speak of the overall picture. People will prefer you to not put stress on everyone instead of carrying the mindset of "Healer will take care of it". Also "where possible" is a very rare instance. Legitly the only one I can name is covering a Monk for ES for P1. But if they get picked a second time, then what~?

Then you get good and learn to weave? I literally murder the paladins on purpose now if they cover me and not the black mage. If you weave the earthshaker, you don't lose any damage - Yes, not even autoattacks. You could get covered, I guess, but its a straight DPS loss if the black mage gets an ES and you cover the monk.

[Ooshima]

Then you get good and learn to weave? I literally murder the paladins on purpose now if they cover me and not the black mage. If you weave the earthshaker, you don't lose any damage - Yes, not even autoattacks. You could get covered, I guess, but its a straight DPS loss if the black mage gets an ES and you cover the monk.

Your BLM have Swiftcast for 1st ES if necessary and eat the next 2 ES with Manawall.

[Hakmatic]

http://puu.sh/hstal/57d4e49406.jpg

btw this was a 6:23 long T11 Parse. Sorry I cut that part out.

This is laughable, tell that monk to get good. Do not use this parse to compare monk and ninja please. Monk can do way more damage than that pre echo. And I agree with Odo, learn to weave and cover that blm for max raid dps. Dont get me started on GL4. The hype is too much for me .

[Lorielle]

Then you get good and learn to weave? I literally murder the paladins on purpose now if they cover me and not the black mage. If you weave the earthshaker, you don't lose any damage - Yes, not even autoattacks. You could get covered, I guess, but its a straight DPS loss if the black mage gets an ES and you cover the monk.

I'm not familiar with weaving ES nor do I understand how this is going to work when you have a puddle right underneath you. Does weaving just cause the puddle to not appear?

Edit: Also, try to be a little less hostile. This is a civil talk. I rather not demean it by calling out people like that.