PLD any better than WAR?

[Chihaya]

Judging from your other threads, I highly suggest you leveling a healer or dps just to watch other people play tank and learn from the good ones.

[HakuroDK]

From personal experience, I find WAR more fun than PLD, but as far as which is better? Impossible to say as they're very different in playstyle.

[Canadane]

Both are able to effectively take anything equally, including endgame. They're balanced really well.

[RiceisNice]

Both are able to effectively take anything equally, including endgame. They're balanced really well.

Until you do double paladin for T11. That fite for aggro sob sob.

[Asierid]

Foresight

A worthless ability. 5-6%~ lower damage against a boss chunking you for 4-6k a hit every minute and a half? k. You use it when you have nothing else, you don't rely on it. So basically we have Vengence/IB/Thrill (Doesn't even increase eHP much either) vs Sentinel/Rampart/Bulwark/Foresight(ha). That's fair.

While not mitigating damage, HP recovery means less work on your healer to recover your hp.

Your healer is not relying on your meager path/bloodbath skills to keep you alive against progression bosses. Cure/2 is still healing you for the thousands, self-heals or not. This is moot.

Paladin can mitigate Melee damage done to a party member, so the usage of Cover is very limited. While Holmgang won't mitigate damage to a party member, its capability to keep a mob on you...

Unless they are casters or are using an ability. Another moot point. Having to burn holmgang "to keep a mob on you" means you need to stop using it as a crutch (Which isn't even it's purpose) and get better at managing threat. Hollowed ground is an immunity with freedom of movement, Holmgang is a wannabe CD, no immunity, roots you, and heaven forbid if that mob is just out of range. It's flat out better.
Cover has way more utility in the form of heavy boss abilities such as MB on Titan EX.

Both tanks can do anything in the game, the difference is pretty small and it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. But to say PLD isn't better than WAR in that small gap (especially considering this argument has been done to death since the WAR rework back in 2.x) is just being ignorant to the numbers and the way the game works. There are few fights where IB is needed compared to the flat, passive (and using proper rotations in those CDs) reductions of PLD, most of the game is based around scripted heavy hits around the rotated cooldowns of PLD rather than the "Oh shit IB" of WAR. Plus they do way better OT damage as proven in this forum before.

Oh, and Ninja's bring slashing now. We can stop trying to argue that WAR using Eye is some kind of gamebreaking utility buff.

[Ceodore]

A worthless ability. 5-6%~ lower damage against a boss chunking you for 4-6k a hit every minute and a half? k. You use it when you have nothing else, you don't rely on it. So basically we have Vengence/IB/Thrill (Doesn't even increase eHP much either) vs Sentinel/Rampart/Bulwark/Foresight(ha). That's fair.

IDK where you're getting your calculations, but a 20% increase in your defense is not 5~6% reduction in damage. In fact the real reduction changes with gear, so already, you've popped a hole in your own statement. The more defense you have base, the higher the amount increased is.

Your healer is not relying on your meager path/bloodbath skills to keep you alive against progression bosses. Cure/2 is still healing you for the thousands, self-heals or not. This is moot.

Did you not notice my point was against packs of mobs? No shit Bloodbath isn't going to do as much healing with only one target, never said it would.

Unless they are casters or are using an ability. Another moot point. Having to burn holmgang "to keep a mob on you" means you need to stop using it as a crutch (Which isn't even it's purpose) and get better at managing threat. Hollowed ground is an immunity with freedom of movement, Holmgang is a wannabe CD, no immunity, roots you, and heaven forbid if that mob is just out of range. It's flat out better.
Cover has way more utility in the form of heavy boss abilities such as MB on Titan EX.

Didn't say I used it for threat, I said I used it for certain boss mechanics. Wild Charge + Crackle Hiss in T10, Giant Bavarois when he starts to chase down a party members for Flail. Of course Hallowed Ground is flat out better, never said it wasn't a great skill. However, compare it to the cooldown on Holmgang as well. I am usually able to eat four or five wild charges + Crackle Hiss in T10 because the cooldown is short enough. Each has their up sides and down sides, so saying that the skill is a wanna be CD shows you're ignorant.

Both tanks can do anything in the game, the difference is pretty small and it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. But to say PLD isn't better than WAR in that small gap (especially considering this argument has been done to death since the WAR rework back in 2.x) is just being ignorant to the numbers and the way the game works. There are few fights where IB is needed compared to the flat, passive (and using proper rotations in those CDs) reductions of PLD, most of the game is based around scripted heavy hits around the rotated cooldowns of PLD rather than the "Oh shit IB" of WAR. Plus they do way better OT damage as proven in this forum before.

First, never said one was better than the other, but to assume that either is better is idiocy. Second, you'd have to be also an idiot to say IB is only needed in a few fights. Any and every fight in this game has a use for IB. IB isn't an oh shit button. It's on a GCD, making it something that should to be used on planned hits. If you're popping it just to throw it out there, then you're wasting it. For flat damage reduction which can be maintained on a boss, Storm's Path is great (10% damage reduction). And then on top of the 10% reduction in damage from Storm's Path, we also are getting 20% more HP from healing spells with Defiance. Both these aspects can be maintained through out a fight. Paladin gets 20% damage reduction, and can maintain a 5% strength reduction on the boss through the fight. So I ask, what's your point? Also, Storm's Path has a lot of strength behind it, since all the boss' damage is reduced by 10%, which includes magic damage as well, which I'd like to point out, Rage of Halone does not effect since it only lowers strength. It also means that Storm's Path reduces damage by 10% for the entire party, where Shield Oath only effects the Paladin.

Oh, and Ninja's bring slashing now. We can stop trying to argue that WAR using Eye is some kind of gamebreaking utility buff.

Ninja brings a skill that Warrior has already, great. You obviously don't realize that Ninjas prefer it if the Warrior keeps up Storm's Eye instead, so that they can focus more on pure damage instead of having to keep up a debuff.

Also, all your quotes are snippets of what I said, leaving them lacking context. How about you actually read what I wrote instead of trying to make it seem like I am saying something that I'm not. Or maybe quote a point in its entirety instead of small bits.

[Kotemon]

In a way it's like choosing a heavy turtle with a sharp pointy object over a maniac with a big bloody axe. There's little difference beyond the sub job ability selection. With that in mind while both are about the same as tanks. They go about doing it differently as folks may have mentioned.

Here's a comparason

This was a good video I saw to help me under stand paladin agro better. It's a level 50 guide and may or not be a bit that outdated. It is still a good place to start.

This one is for lower level gladiators. Unfortunately I didn't see this one when I was learning the hard way.

Xeno's Paladin 2.38 (some notes on changes)

[-DMR-]

Judging from your other threads, I highly suggest you leveling a healer or dps just to watch other people play tank and learn from the good ones.

I'm willing to give tanking another go with pld, before leveling up a dps job, but thanks for the advice.

[desufin]

All these wrong and stupid comparisons.

Proper and any sensible comparisons on CD management for damage mitigation are as followed:
Defiance = Shield Oath
Inner Beast = Rampart
Vengeance = Sentinel
Vengeance+Inner Beast > Anything a PLD can do (besides Hallowed Ground)

When it comes to endgame tanking, people take PLD as MT because it takes less skill, less likely to screw up and lets WAR's keep up debuffs while doing full damage. But if a group really wanted to min/max on dps setups they would have a WAR MT and PLD OT because that's the most optimal dps for the two.

[ShaneDawn]

PLDs are better main tanks for their overall survivability. Shield Oath and the cooldowns make up for a better EHP. The PLD can also Stoneskin itself when needed.

WAR is generally a better off-tank. Warrior has better dps potential and also adds nice debuffs such as Storm's Eye and Path that help both the MT as the dps. War can also hold packs of mobs better with Overpower and Flashes; the PLD often has it hard keeping enmity on packs of mobs when they run low on mp.

On coils you ideally want to have both, at least on T13. On earlier coils a good group may run double warriors for increased damage and debuff uptime though.