Healers forever gimped

[KisaiTenshi]

This is a point of contention I will agree with. Anyone unfamiliar with XI won't know "Refresh" is a spell from XI used for MP Regeneration. In fact, I don't think the term "Refresh" is used anywhere except on Shroud of Saints and the tooltip should be changed to adjust that.

Agreed.

I'm, uh, not sure what you're trying to prove at this moment aside from trying to verify all the different data point levels for Shroud. Which is commendable, but not sure how that's useful for the current discussion.

There's only two fates that could potentially level sync to 48 and they aren't popping, so at this point it's not provable, but it really does look like Potency 60... based on levelsync does equate to just about 21%. I suspect that when we get level 60, we'll see the same linear scale on Shroud of Saints, with likely another potency increase at level 58 so it scales closer to 25%. There's just not enough sample points for Potency 80 to really say anything other than "the gear isn't level synced at 50", so there's exactly one sample point to go off. If someone has nothing but PIE points, then it doesn't move the goal posts very far.

[KisaiTenshi]

TBH, it does drive me away from DPS. I'd still a play DPS if any of FFXIV's DPS were interesting (to me), but ever the pressure to minmax and get that extra 1%, or even 0.1%... is one of the things that pushes me away from it.

The nice thing about healing is that, while interesting to discuss in depth... at the end of the day (unlike DPS), HP/S is capped. If you can meet the minimum you win. Extra HP/S is overhealing and generally bad.

Unfortunately, however, you do still get people claiming THEIR CHOICE ONE TRUE SECONDARY STAT is the best and at times it is offputting. Or the whole sch vs whm thing. But at least there's enough discussion and differing opinion that the tanks and dps don't really care how you built, and raids still take 1 of each healer.

I'd love to see a game that actually penalizes minmaxing. To date, every game that gives you the option of dumping points into something, everyone just dumps it into "the one stat that matters" for damage output.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

On the contrary. All the Shroud of Saints at Potency 60, without taking into account the Natural Healing rate are just over 20%. Only the level 49 and 50 ones are significantly more than 20%.

And this table with what seems to be random numbers with no relation with what was previously discussed bundled together is trying to say... what exactly?

If you're still trying to prove somehow that shroud is always a 20% MP recovery, then you're failing on that part.

[Cynfael]

And this table with what seems to be random numbers with no relation with what was previously discussed bundled together is trying to say... what exactly?

If you're still trying to prove somehow that shroud is always a 20% MP recovery, then you're failing on that part.

I, too, am confused by this. I think I've officially lost track of what the hell was originally being discussed.

[KisaiTenshi]

And this table with what seems to be random numbers with no relation with what was previously discussed bundled together is trying to say... what exactly?

If you're still trying to prove somehow that shroud is always a 20% MP recovery, then you're failing on that part.

The data point I was looking for finally showed up.

So Potency 60 = about 21% , Potency 80 = 28%. The number can only go down with higher PIE.
If I use 3752 (no gear) instead of 4353 it's 28%. Clearly whatever SoS is based off of, is derived from something that isn't affected by gear, only by level. So either it's a hidden stat or it's a straight up using the same numbers Levelsync uses.

That still doesn't change the fact that that the amount of MP given by Shroud of Saints alone is close to 20% which is where this entire argument about Aetherflow being 20% being comparable began.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Aetherflow is always 20%, regardless of MP pool
Shroud of Saints is not

If you have 4300 MP, Shroud of Saints would recover 24,65% in comparison with your MP pool
If you have 4600 MP, it's 23,04%
If you have 5300 MP it's 20,00%
If you have 5500 MP it's 19,27%

Oh look, you are right on one specific MP pool that will no longer be correct the moment you're at 5299 or 5301 mp. You can't associate Shroud of Saints with a certain percentage. Simply because it does not scale with your MP pool. You make it look like it scales with MP because you're using the level difference, but that's because Shroud scales on level, not MP pool. Obviously, if your level increases, your maximum MP increases as well. So that fabricated information of yours isn't even complete.

Also where's that 100 potency coming from? Shroud doesn't even have 100 potency. If you're "predicting for Heaven's ward", Heaven's ward is now not relevant at all.

[Feylie]

[KisaiTenshi]

Aetherflow is always 20%, regardless of MP pool
Shroud of Saints is not

Where did I say this? You're not reading anything at all and just arguing for the sake of arguing, or intentionally being a troll. I don't care which.

LOOK AGAIN. SoS at Potency 60 is 21% of the LEVELSYNC. SoS Potency 80 is 28%. Maybe Potency at 100 might be around level 58 and could be 35%, who really knows. Since we can't levelsync to level 50 from 50, obviously the level 50 value is of dubious value. Again I'm pointing out that whatever SoS is based on, doesn't take into account gear or bonus points. Whatever value it's using for level 50 is likely based on around having 3800MP, the chart goes in a straight line, and then level 50 isn't in that line. That fact that SoS/Total MP comes up with nearly the same number for all the potency 60's mean's I'm right, or it's just a coincidence. If it was a coincidence, then it wouldn't continue for Potency 80 would it?

[Ghishlain]

Where did I say this? You're not reading anything at all and just arguing for the sake of arguing, or intentionally being a troll. I don't care which.

LOOK AGAIN. SoS at Potency 60 is 21% of the LEVELSYNC. SoS Potency 80 is 28%. Maybe Potency at 100 might be around level 58 and could be 35%, who really knows. Since we can't levelsync to level 50 from 50, obviously the level 50 value is of dubious value. Again I'm pointing out that whatever SoS is based on, doesn't take into account gear or bonus points. Whatever value it's using for level 50 is likely based on around having 3800MP, the chart goes in a straight line, and then level 50 isn't in that line. That fact that SoS/Total MP comes up with nearly the same number for all the potency 60's mean's I'm right, or it's just a coincidence. If it was a coincidence, then it wouldn't continue for Potency 80 would it?

I still don't understand what bearing this train of thought has on the discussion at hand about... either about Shroud and Aetherflow being similar in MP gain or the 20% margin of error.

All you've shown is Shroud of Saint scales in some unknown way with the level of the CNJ, that Lyrica actually proved in a post a few months ago, actually. (Read the whole page). How is this related? I think, at this point, you need to show us that relationship with a solid argument in the above discussion topics or perhaps drop the topic.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

I still can't connect the dots you're trying to make when finding a relationship between (as presented in graph):
MP scaling on level
Shroud scaling on level
Shroud% of MP pool on level

Considering how Shroud gets a steady amount according to level it's obvious it'll get a straight line.
You don't get a steady amount of piety with each level or with gear, which is reflected in your graph.
But if you butcher a line that has an R-equation of around 0,95 something into natural MP regen, it's only 2%. Thus you only take over 2% of the 5% error margin (or whatever the differentiation is called of the R-equation). Of course this will generate a somewhat straight line.

Ergo: Still no relevance proven of the graph you're presenting with Shroud MP recovery, natural MP recovery and maximum MP pool. In fact, you're not even taking the shroud recovery vs maximum MP pool rate. So again: What are you trying to prove here with that chart?