Revelations from Patch 2.55 [SPOILERS]

[RobinRethiel]

All right, let's go on.

You just write the same again. Save your time, I have not forget it. It just still makes no sense. Since you write the same, I just point toward the answers I already gave to that. If you want to actually write a real answer to the real problems, fine. If you want to continue to literally only answer to your own insinuations, ignoring the vital points, also fine for me. Whatever you like. It's your time you waste with textual copy/paste.

[Felis]

The separation is interesting. The "Syndicate" is called in the german client "Scorpio-Kreis" and i don't remember, that they ever talked about a sub-group within it.

Royalisten and Republikanern

[Cilia]

You just write the same again. Save your time, I have not forget it. It just still makes no sense. Since you write the same, I just point toward the answers I already gave to that. If you want to actually write a real answer to the real problems, fine. If you want to continue to literally only answer to your own insinuations, ignoring the vital points, also fine for me. Whatever you like. It's your time you waste with textual copy/paste.

So if I'm not writing "real answer[s] to the real problems," tell me what the "real problems" are. Far as I can tell I've answered those at length and in considerable detail. Hey, just to make things fun and simple I'll challenge myself to do it in a single sentence.

If what you're looking for is validation that your views are right, that might not necessarily be what you get. Somebody disagreeing with you doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong; it just means they don't see things the same way you do. When you back that view up with evidence, on the other hand...

As an aside, the way I see it you're just looking for validation your viewpoint is right. You ignore anything anyone says to the contrary or vehemently dismiss it as nonsense. You're trying to force your views and wishes onto a story you're not writing, and that's why it's pointless to try and debate with you - you don't want to actually debate, you just want someone to agree with you and tell you you're right. The general consensus seems to be against that, but if you want to continue trying to force your views onto a story you're not in control of go ahead. It's pointless, but nobody can stop you.

[RobinRethiel]

When you start rambling again about this "we can't defeat an army" and so on, you are discussing with yourself, because none of those, who don't like the plot holes in the last part of the story want to defeat or even fight an army.

There are only a few possibilities:
1. You don't even read the posts you are answering to.
2. You read them, but ignore their content.
3. You read them, understand them, but you can't argue the mentioned points, so you keep talking about those which are none.

Just some of the vital points you and others keep ignoring (and these are just points you don't have to guess, you can see this inside the cutscenes):

A) Ysh deflects a powerful attack which one-hits all the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves inside the room, and not for herself alone, but for the whole group and without any weapon in her hand. So the point of "we are powerless without a weapon" is gone, even if people demand, that it was taken. (and that this would be forced, too, because many characters would for sure not do that in such a situation and just say: sorry, not now and today, I keep my weapon, if you don't like that, then we meet another day. I just got some of my friends killed and some strange things happening around here, I have to be careful)

B) Beside those one-hit victims there are no further Brass Blades or Crystal Braves even close to the banquet. It takes around 5 minutes at least, until a few more are coming up the stairs. So to say that we have to fight an army for saving (or trying to save) Raubahn is also gone. There was only Ilberd left and with Raubahn fighting Ilberd, there wouldn't be a big chance for Lolo to escape - but well.

C) Ignoring A and B, again: No army is waiting outside. Just running would have been enough to escape. Those few guys able to follow us only reach us because of all the chat breaks. So the Scions actually die for nothing.

D) The thing with the guilt:
D1) First thing: fleeing always makes you look guilty.
D2) "We" DO fight and kill a lot of people, so the point of "We can't harm anyone anyone, because we would look guilty" is also gone. We are part of the group of Scions. And the Scions are killing guards. Even the guards slaughtered by Ilberd will be blamed on us.

And so on.

Actually, for Lolo, since at least a good part of the astonishing big Crystal Brace mercenary army was under his control, it would have made a lot more sense, if he had used this to let Ilberd kill the Sultana, the Crystal Braves storm in and then yell, that this is a planed coup of Alphinaud and the Scions, trying to take over Uldah. Ilberd could be the hero, suddenly fighting against the Braves and the Scions, while the Crystal Braves - mercenaries from outside, so easily to blame - and their leaders (= Alphinaud and kind of the Scions and the WoL) are the baddies and Lolo could play the strong guy who averted an attack on Uldah.

To let the Brass Blades just fight side by side the the Crystal Braves is very strange. It raises questions, why there are so many of them in Uldah and together with other questions, like Sultansworn gone, flames gone, all points toward Lolo, what he for sure would normally not like. Because he too can be assassinated and other things and the more reasons he gives to more and more people, the harder his life and reign gets (all speculations aside, that he may work for someone else and so on). He's still not in the position to simply create a police state and rule with oppression.

[KarstenS]

Royalisten and Republikanern

Yes. Got into it. Have played the Uldah starting city mainstory this weekend and it gave me some view, that Limsa and Gridania story didn't told me.

[Cilia]

Ad hominem attacks aside...

A) Ysh deflects a powerful attack which one-hits all the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves inside the room, and not for herself alone, but for the whole group and without any weapon in her hand. So the point of "we are powerless without a weapon" is gone, even if people demand, that it was taken. (and that this would be forced, too, because many characters would for sure not do that in such a situation and just say: sorry, not now and today, I keep my weapon, if you don't like that, then we meet another day. I just got some of my friends killed and some strange things happening around here, I have to be careful)

Y'shtola using a rudimentary shielding spell without a drawn weapon does not mean we are not powerless without our weapons; I never said we were, but the reality is that fighting unarmed against a large force of armed enemies is nigh-impossible. She was also using magic, and particularly powerful or skilled magi are known for being able to use spells without a channeling device (weapon) in fantasy settings. (If you aren't suggesting we fight back or resist arrest, why do you continue to bring this up?)

As a side note, everyone but you still had their weapons; therefore Y'shtola being able to use a spell without her weapon drawn is reasonable.

In regards to why you're forced to leave your weapon at the door, there isn't enough time to develop a branching story path that lets you choose not to and from the PC's perspective they weren't expecting trouble. (I've explained this about three times now.)

B) Beside those one-hit victims there are no further Brass Blades or Crystal Braves even close to the banquet. It takes around 5 minutes at least, until a few more are coming up the stairs. So to say that we have to fight an army for saving (or trying to save) Raubahn is also gone. There was only Ilberd left and with Raubahn fighting Ilberd, there wouldn't be a big chance for Lolo to escape - but well.

The amount of time between your escape your from the dining hall and when enemy reinforcements showed up around the royal promenade is indeterminate, but likely 1-2 minutes tops.

Thancred specifically notes the city's been placed under tight guard, so another escape route is unlikely if not impossible.

Thancred also tells Yda that "unless [she] intends on pummeling them all," there's no point in trying to fight back. The enemy forces are much larger than what we see.

While the Scions had their weapons and could have helped Raubahn fight Ilberd, we didn't, and as I've iterated before (and Thancred himself is backing me up on this one) the city was under tight guard, so it wouldn't have been long before more Blades and Braves were swarming us.

Lolorito makes his escape after Ilberd tanks Raubahn's first swing and gets pushed back.

C) Ignoring A and B, again: No army is waiting outside. Just running would have been enough to escape. Those few guys able to follow us only reach us because of all the chat breaks. So the Scions actually die for nothing.

See: The amount of time that passes between your escape from the dining hall and the arrival of the enemy reinforcements is indeterminate, but for the story's sake likely 1-2 minutes tops. That would have been plenty of time to escape but as Thancred notes there's guards everywhere, so any obvious route of escape was likely cut off, and the characters likely needed a moment or two to pull their wits together.

As an aside, I highly doubt any of the Scions are dead. Captured, maybe, but not dead.

D) The thing with the guilt:
D1) First thing: fleeing always makes you look guilty.
D2) "We" DO fight and kill a lot of people, so the point of "We can't harm anyone anyone, because we would look guilty" is also gone. We are part of the group of Scions. And the Scions are killing guards. Even the guards slaughtered by Ilberd will be blamed on us.

1) While fleeing might make us look guilty, in the face of the state corruption and framing there is no way not fleeing would help us.
2) There is no indication that anyone, excepting Nanamo and Teledji, was outright killed during "The Parting Glass." Like as not they were simply knocked out, and knowing the Scions that's probably the case.

Actually, for Lolo, since at least a good part of the astonishing big Crystal Brace mercenary army was under his control, it would have made a lot more sense, if he had used this to let Ilberd kill the Sultana, the Crystal Braves storm in and then yell, that this is a planed coup of Alphinaud and the Scions, trying to take over Uldah. Ilberd could be the hero, suddenly fighting against the Braves and the Scions, while the Crystal Braves - mercenaries from outside, so easily to blame - and their leaders (= Alphinaud and kind of the Scions and the WoL) are the baddies and Lolo could play the strong guy who averted an attack on Uldah.

Except Lolorito isn't trying to become a national hero, and he needs popular opinion to be supporting the Crystal Braves if he's going to be openly working with them in Mor Dhona to excavate Omega. It's very possible he didn't even want to have to step into the forefront at all, and only intended to keep using Teledji as a puppet from the shadows.

EDIT: Stating the Scions and Crystal Braves are staging a coup to gain control of Ul'dah is just as ridiculous as Teledji accusing them of enlisting Ishgard for aid in that very same plot (if not moreso).

It's similarly pointless to alienate a large group of mercenaries you've been paying, especially when you need their organization's support to control the territory you're interested in.

To let the Brass Blades just fight side by side the the Crystal Braves is very strange. It raises questions, why there are so many of them in Uldah and together with other questions, like Sultansworn gone, flames gone, all points toward Lolo, what he for sure would normally not like. Because he too can be assassinated and other things and the more reasons he gives to more and more people, the harder his life and reign gets (all speculations aside, that he may work for someone else and so on). He's still not in the position to simply create a police state and rule with oppression.

The Brass Blades and Crystal Braves fighting alongside each other would not be strange in the face of a large crisis (like regicide); they're both peacekeeping organizations on paper.

Neither the Sultansworn nor the Immortal Flames have been disbanded (yet). The Flames were mobilized to assist in the defense of the Steps of Faith; the Sultansworn are a much smaller organization, a number of whom are being paid off by the Monetarists. Like as not Lolorito won't disband either because he wants to keep up appearances or because he can pay off enough of them to keep the organization under his control.

While Lolorito doesn't have the power to create a police state yet, I have no doubt that's the direction he's going. It's either that or unfettered corruption and lawlessness, which does not help him in the slightest.

[Frederick22]

With all this I will make a different comment.
Did anyone notice that there is a traitor on the temple knights? There was one alongside Iceheart, and no he was not killed, he/she was with her.

[Chewy2nd]

With all this I will make a different comment.
Did anyone notice that there is a traitor on the temple knights? There was one alongside Iceheart, and no he was not killed, he/she was with her.

Not to mention she somehow passed by the Gates of Judgement, using glamours?

[lilirulu]

She might have had glamours on but released them after they passed the gate, or more likely, she and her heretic/traitors fought all the way through the Gates of Judgement to the first ward and then disabled it.

All I know is that I'll be keeping my eyes open for any hyurs in Ishgard with Ice Blue eyes.

[gamesmart]

All I know is that I'll be keeping my eyes open for any hyurs in Ishgard with Ice Blue eyes.

I thought Ysayle was Elezen?