Revelations from Patch 2.55 [SPOILERS]

[LycorisSelunis]

First time posting in the lore forum, and I have been awake about 24 hours too. Time for my two cents. Though likely a dollar fifty by the time I am done....

The Sultana- Firstly the vibe I got from the whole drawn out smiling and goblet swirling bit was just a sort of Shakespearian dramatic effect. Secondly I most certainly think she is very very dead, and that little rat of a lalafel knew about how long it would take to work AND with the ear of the handmaiden, an inside guess as to how long the conversation would be even. The reason I feel this way is the sultana barely makes any noise, and the walls of her room are stone with a heavy wooden door, sound does not travel through that stuff very well. You as the character barely had enough time to be shocked before they busted in the room screaming regicide at you, all staged and planned.

The poison- Our good friend in the 4th Braves got waylaid trying to warn us of the depth of corruption, perhaps even wind of a plan and they 3rd took the opportunity to frame us more. The general lack of time before this huge social and diplomatic event is why you still have the darned thing on you when you get 'caught' (though they probably could've planted another one on you anyways) and that evidence as well as the body being withheld is protecting implication of the monetarists because the poison in question is likely very rare, very expensive, and possibly even a magical poison in nature, the sort of thing that could get traced back to them as few can afford such an expensive and likely illegal substance. The body of course is not getting a proper autopsy, further disallowing to see if the substance in the vial is ACTUALLY the same as what killed her, though he yells something to this effect when you get ingloriously tossed to the floor all tied up, I doubt that any actual tests were done in the implied short timeframe.

The hush hush- while the plan to turn Ul'dah into a republic would probably be ill for monetarists, I think it all comes back to politics and more importantly law. likely the sultana had a very specific way to dissolve her monarchy and replace it with a new government in a legal fashion within the dictates of her power. the longer the sultana is 'ill' the longer the monetarists have to dig their grubby little fingers Into every crack of Ul'dah and cement their power before making it look like she wasted away after some mysterious disease or some such. creating a power vacuum in their favor. This was backup plan seeing as how their intended scapegoat, the WoL, escaped

The escape- The lack of weapon I can assume is due to personally meeting the sultana, seeing as the other scions apparently didn't turn theirs in for the banquet. Also the game really has been consistent in including your weapon in cutscenes with you and the absence speaks volumes. If there's one thing I find myself constantly thinking it's how much I love the little details in this game. This makes sense, you don't go see the president or the queen without a patdown. As far as the character having power with or without their weapon, it played perfectly into how I canonically see my character. I main scholar and (as someone else pointed out too) take the 'bring your most stalwart companions' comments before trials and such to heart. The way I see my unique power playing out as making a difference, I am a leader and use my magic and strategy to bolster those who would otherwise be unable to overcome. A sort of power beyond their limits so to speak, not dissimilar to how the WoL uses the Echo. I would not be so great by myself in a fight vs that sword wielding maniac Ilberd. As for the 'armies' thing, that's a load because the scions are clearly doing that. Yda and Papalymo are fighting hordes of neverending blades and braves at a choke point. those that catch up in the tunnel, Y'shtola and Thancred do the same. As a sidenote I couldn't help but think how that particular scene, if there was a romance involved, would have had the whole 'I might never see you again' impulse kiss. That aside, I don't believe the scions to be dead, they had the ambiguous fade out deal, but I do expect it to be an agonizing wait to see if that is true. (with the lore tidbit about astrologian being Sharlyan, it makes me feel almost like I will be learning it in memoriam to them)

The other leaders- The shmoozing I can understand even though my feelings mirror Alphinaud's about them taking credit for our work. They are doing their jobs as diplomats- trying to bring in a new ally. Also I get the feeling Aymeric has a hint of something afoot but knows he can ill afford being dragged into it with his own country in peril. Kan-E and Merlwyb, I can even understand their need to vacate the premises, they cannot and should not take sides in a civil war because of their positions as leaders. what upset me was the lack of COMMENT. Merlwyb was ever one to speak her mind, and Kan-E? Really? not even an innocent sort of 'surely, it couldn't be HER, there must be some mistake?!' Not a friggin peep. Minfilia and the scions had barely a word to defend themselves either, when accused of sorcery. everyone just let the little guy waltz in and believed him, right off the bat. On an emotional level I was possessed of a great desire to murder the midget, and both upset that Raubahn robbed me of it but happy at least he died at the same time. I admit I did not suspect Ilberd himself of treachery.

Midgardsormr- I am wondering if the little shoulder dragon is invisible/inaudible to others. though we generally see ourselves as alone when he makes comment, its not entirely so. As in we see no one else on screen but are in an environment we know ambient people to be about. I am most curious to see how his plot with the WoL develops.

Tataru/Urianger- I didn't get any sort of suspicious vibe at all, and as for her coking the books it seemed to me as if she was in charge of the scions and only the scions, and had her hands full enough as it is. Alphinaud clearly had braves doing their own accounting, and that's part of how it was hidden and that poor sod died for poking around. I dropped my jaw wide open at the bit with Urianger and the ascians, and all I can think is I cannot wait to see what happens. He did help Tataru escape, she said, so if he DOES have any duplicity its downright subtle and probably in a fashion that he cannot or will not act out of character towards any scions. Snape comes to mind...

Yugiri and the Au Ra- I was rather upset at how they just GLOSSED OVER Yugiri's face. That wasn't even a voice acted scene to hallmark the occasion that should have been momentous. No mention of her people, no explanation, she isn't chillin in the intercessory to even make small talk with, or just admire her model. I was REALLY hoping for something that was enough to tie in the Auri race as the new playable race, any INKLING as to how it might fit in to the current plot, not to mention the whole looks-draconic-goin-to-Ishgard debacle.

Overall- I absolutely loved every moment of this unfolding plot. I was emotionally invested in all of it and was on pins and needles for the two hours or whatever of cutscenes saying 'oh I'm gonna KILL him please can I kill him' , 'oh NO, they can't go!' , '*gasp* I don't believe he was in on it all along', etc etc. the placement of the carriage that you start the game in was particularly great imo because after all that friggin heartwrench, I needed a laugh. Some questions were answered yes but many more left in their wake. I have that feeling of ending a book or a season of a tv show and being all like "I have to wait HOW long for the next bit?!" I have faith in SE to deliver.

I feel like I am forgetting some other point I wanted to make but I don't remember....oh well.

[Cilia]

You don't even get it, that you are talking with yourself, mainly, can this be? You argue against your own made up points. Well, have fun with that.

The only real argument against one of my points, which is just one of many, would be the last. But that's just wishful thinking of you. You can't just kill of someone that well known like the WoL. Whole Eorza knows us. And Lolo got a problem already, because HE is the one with the motive. He can't need blood on his hands in this situation. Money becomes very quickly useless, if you bath in blood and he does not have the military power be ruler by force. - Not yet. Sure, his whole plan may be anyway to make Uldah an exklave of the empire with him as governor. But even this does not happen in one day. He needs time and he needs everyone running away and letting him do his work. Well, we gave that to him. Everyone did. It's the dangerous game of appeasement...

Really am I? I could have sworn I heard you saying stuff like "I'd never give up my weapon!" etc... but, in the interest of staying civil, I'll offer a rebuttal.

Fact is, there's no way to prove your innocence. You'd need eyewitness testimony from Laurentius (who pointed out the empty vial and insisted you take it), Ilberd (who admitted to being personally responsible for the Sultana's poisoning), and Nanamo (who is the only one besides you who knows what happened in that room at that time). The first two people are clearly corrupt and in the Monetarists' / Lolorito's pocket, and Nanamo obviously can't testify for you (being dead and all). Regardless of whether or not you have a motive, without honest testimony from at least one of those three there's no other suspect. You were found, in private, with the cause of death and Nanamo having died not moments ago. Nobody had come into or out of her room while you were speaking with her. If Ilberd and Laurentius don't fess up, logically you are the only one who could have done it.

And, again, they could easily bribe the jury assuming there is one, and likely have whatever the Ul'dahn analogue for a judge is in their pockets as well.

Would the smallfolk believe you're earnestly responsible? ... probably not. Would they rebel against such an obvious setup? Maybe. Still, with the Sultana dead the Monetarists / Lolorito gain control of the state, letting them enforce martial law to quash rebellions. Most of the people in Ul'dah are merchants anyway; they wouldn't be able to fight back against the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves (highly trained and experienced mercenaries / soldiers). Either way rebellion would lead to civil war, which is the last thing all Eorzea needs right now with Garlemald looming on the horizon and looking for any weakness to exploit.

The ultimate problem people seem to have is I could have prevented this. Yes and no. Much of what happened in Ul'dah had absolutely nothing to do with you, the Warrior of Light. It was a political game that didn't really have anything to do with you, the machinists of whom set the game into play long ago (2.2 or earlier). We really had nothing to do with the political intrigue of Ul'dah until we were made a scapegoat for the Monetarists' assassination of Nanamo. At the same time the PC did have a brief window of opportunity to do something (e.g. not take the vial, leave it elsewhere while going to meet the Sultana, etc.) and savvy PCs wouldn't have fallen for it. Again, though, from the story's perspective we were rushed and didn't think it was important, so we took it with us. End. Of. Line.

[gamesmart]

I really shouldn't be doing this, but I'll bite anyway...

And again you make the same mistake. I don't discuss this with you. There is no scene were we give away our weapon. Period. If they don't state clearly, that we don't have a weapon - which also means, that we must be allowed to behave differently, since we know, this a dangerous place - then we still have our weapon. Period. If you like you can say we don't, sure. As I can say, we do.

There doesn't NEED to be a scene that shows us giving away our weapon. We don't see every single thing that happens - because we don't need to. What would be the point of a cutscene in which all we do is approach a guard, nod, and enter the sultana's bedchamber? All we need to note is that for those of us who show our weapons sheathed, our weapons WEREN'T THERE.

It's still a f**** army. Even if they all got their personal smartphone, people SEE this. Why can't you think a bit about it. Please try at least. Don't just create your own fantasy world inside you head where everything is exactly like you want it. If you want to make a point, you must think about its problems. Else it is none.

Everyone in Ul'dah knows about its political state. Nobody would be surprised if a riot broke out in some other part of the city-state, and that could easily be the excuse the Brass Blades would use when moving en masse. Few would question it, and those that did wouldn't want to go investigate anyway - going towards a riot is generally a bad idea.

Sure, why don't they just turn us all into chicken or puppets for their fireplace. It's absolutely impossible to keep something this big secret. The point you make would make the whole scene ten times more absurd. It would be far more worse.

It's in fact very easy to keep such a big incident a secret - just look at Ul'dah now. None of the smallfolk know exactly what happened - only rumors and the "official statement" to base their discussions off of. See my above comment for why it would be easy to excuse the movement of a large contingent of armed forces.

I did, I'm just not playing the blind fan, who cheers to everything served and defends it with full brutal force. You want, that all Paladins are corrupt, that all Brass Blades are corrupt, that all Flames are corrupt or dumb, that the leaders are corrupt or blind and dumb. You are bending the whole world, so that this coup makes sense. And you are making it worse with that. Because if it would be, as you say, then not only this scene and it small problems would got problems, then the whole main story especially of Uldah would be... simply bad. You try to ruin the game story to defend some minor points. Really?

I did not say that ALL of them are corrupt - in fact, quite the contrary. Plenty of Brass Blades know you're innocent, there's at least two Sultansworn (well, one isn't really anymore) who aren't corrupt, and the current leader of the Flames is most certainly NOT corrupt. I'm not bending anything to "validate" the plot when it's already been set up that way.

Please help keep the discussion civil, don't throw insults around when trying to argue a standpoint. (It doesn't lend credibility to your argument either.)

[LycorisSelunis]

Aside from the corruption, anyone actually looking for trial would put her handmaiden as suspect since it was her drink that was poisoned and her handmaiden poured the stuff. But, you know, money.

[gamesmart]

Aside from the corruption, anyone actually looking for trial would put her handmaiden as suspect since it was her drink that was poisoned and her handmaiden poured the stuff. But, you know, money.

Unfortunately, due to a lack of security monitoring (because that, well, doesn't exist), the handmaiden could EASILY claim that she wasn't anywhere nearby at the time of the incident, since she wasn't in the room when it happened. Even though we know she was a more likely culprit, we have no proof to show for it.

[Cilia]

Unfortunately, due to a lack of security monitoring (because that, well, doesn't exist), the handmaiden could EASILY claim that she wasn't anywhere nearby at the time of the incident, since she wasn't in the room when it happened. Even though we know she was a more likely culprit, we have no proof to show for it.

Well, to say the handmaiden was the culprit would require a lengthy investigation into where she got the wine bottle from, who saw her with it, and when. Regardless, she can simply deny any accusation pointed at her and, due to having the Monetarists' / Lolorito's backing, it'll go through. It's also possible (though less likely) the goblet was coated with a dried version of the poison that dissolved when the wine was poured in it.

That said, I highly doubt the crime scene investigators of Ul'dah have techniques advanced enough to do all that, even without rampant corruption standing in their way at every step. Hildibrand might succeed... but, well, he got rocketed into the sky with the Treaty Blade.

[RobinRethiel]

Have not read the answers, since they will be the same again anyway (and I actually don't care much about what you few people think or want to believe).

The only real chance for Lolo is, to keep the coup "smooth". Any attention is bad forhim, since he is the ONLY one profiting from it. There is no one else. No one.

To blame the WoL is on the long term utterly stupid and just good for the shock to shoo away others - so they don't dare to fight this coup immediate. The WoL has nothing to win from this regicide, in the best case just also nothing to lose, but that's it. The same for the Scions. Their main involvement in Uldah goes over the Sultana and Raubahn and even that is not much. Both are gone, so the Scions also just lost.

No, Lolo would not fight us. It may be good for him, if we somehow would die - without his involvement and others to blame, but he must avoid any blood on his hands, since his motives are crushing obvious. He also would not give the WoL a rigged trial. There would be no trial at all, in the worst case. But not, because he would let us get killed, that would be bad for him. He would keep the WoL in prison, trying to play the fair judge, to buy more time to stabilise his reign or whatever else he plans as master or puppet. For his position an outbreak of violence would be the worst. NOW he got what he want, at least the biggest part. It's unstable. Even slamming doors may bring this house of cards down.

Uldah is not that corrupt. There ARE corrupt people and because some of them are at the top, it is a problem. But it is no Sodom. If it would be, there would be no scheme. There would be no Sultana at all, no Sultansworn, no Raubahn, no Flames. The situation and that every good guy backed down gave Lolo and the corrupt people the power now. In reality this would mean, that the situation in Uldah became much, much worse and that Limsi and Gridania wouldn't be able to trust the leader and army of Uldah anymore - the alliance? Gone. Maybe still existing on paper, but worthless.

And for the WoL? Well, just like it is. The WoL goes his way, seeking a new war or other things to fight or save or ruin. S/He just fled this one, all the work to fight corruption and for the lifes of the citizen? Perished. Their problems, sorry that you thought s/he's your light, saving you. Not this time. S/He gonna build some airships now and has fun in the skies. Weeeeee!

[dragonflie]

Have not read the answers, since they will be the same again anyway (and I actually don't care much about what you few people think or want to believe).

Why do you keep arguing if you are just going to run around and go LALALALALALALA?

At this point, it's better for everyone to just ignore you since it's like debating with a rock.

[RobinRethiel]

Those people said the same pointless things half a dozen times, ignoring the vital points, because they got nothing to disprove them.

And I indeed would like it, if people would stop writing pointless "answers" to my posts. If they got an argument, great. I really would like to read one. But not the same nonsense over and over again.

[gamesmart]

snip

You're not here for a meaningful debate. You're here because you want confirmation that your beliefs are right, and dismissing any contrary statement as nonsense. The point of a forum is to bounce ideas off of other people, and debate those ideas. If you're not even going to listen to what we think (what most of us think as a matter of fact) in order to have a discussion about it, then why are you still here?

Back on topic: I can hunt around all the city-states and compile a list of things that NPCs say about 2.55's events over the weekend, if someone hasn't done so yet. Perhaps we'll find something meaningful in there that we missed.

Edit: I forgot how many NPCs are outside of the cities. This is going to be one hell of an undertaking.

Edit 2: Just wrapped up Thanalan, moving on to La Noscea.

Edit 3: Taking a Coil break (that makes no sense), will work on it afterward.

Edit 4: Ate too much for dinner, back on the case! Dialogue outside of Limsa seems sparse, if it exists at all. Searched Lower, Middle, and Eastern La Noscea, and nothing. I should probably stop editing this.