Give PLD In-Combat Raise? (3.0?)

[Asierid]

You have an ability that is near worthless. This would make it possible worth using in some occassions.

You act like if they fixed it to make it useful, that suddenly healers and summoners are gonna be like "Screw raising. let the Paladin do it".

That's not gonna happen. But say both healers die.... and Paladin decided to Hallowed Ground and cast Raise on one of the fallen healers as a clutch last ditch effort to save the raid.

Or maybe Tank swaps and Warrior holds him using self healing while PLD raises.

Utility ain't a bad thing.

No. It wouldn't. Not only would you have to hope that you got the timing right on Hallowed's animation so you don't get interrupted and screw up the whole thing altogether, but the -one- time your raid has a LB3 ready and the PLD is one of the few left(Chances? Not good to begin with. You're usually the first dead unless the DPS fails to avoidable mechanics or your heals are not on their game.) isn't enough to make it worth using.

Swiftcast with it, or don't do it at all. Just give them something decent other then half-assing the current skills and trying to make it useful.

[Superskull85]

Well aesthetically considering my cross class actions are "beast" (WAR) like actions minus Stoneskin I would have to agree. I mean because of the WAR actions you can actually add better damage and raw survivability but that is more "primal" "dark" focus which is not a PLD. However I then look at SMN and realize that 3/5 of my actions are arrow based with 1 that is almost entirely useless. Then you can take a look at SCH who has access to shields and offensive magic both of which complement their cosmetic design. Take a turn backwards looking at BLM which, in theory, should be a pure offensive magic set gets ACN actions that are on the opposite side of the spectrum (healing/shielding).

I don't even have 5 cross class actions selected for WHM and WAR gets more damage reduction (though being HP based in nature)/aggro tools. DRG, BRD and NIN's cross class actions mostly fit their theme with MNK being close to them with a damage reduction when, in theory again, they have more of a dodge theme like NIN.

So I can definitely see the need to add to the cosmetics/class specific functionality of PLD and am not against more additions but PLD is definitely not alone in its quirkiness regarding cross class actions.

[Spoekes]

I don't even have 5 cross class actions selected for WHM and WAR gets more damage reduction (though being HP based in nature)/aggro tools.

I sometimes crossclass a DoL skill like prospect just to confuse others xD

[Superskull85]

I sometimes crossclass a DoL skill like prospect just to confuse others xD

Hey you never know there might be some unspoiled nodes awaiting you in those dangerous dungeons.

[Cligue]

snip

Why the hell would you be casting a raise right before adds spawn in this situation. Stop trying to say this is a bad idea by giving only one example of a time where it would be horrible to use. All of the fights in ff14 are scripted and you will know when every add is going to spawn, using your ability at proper times is part of being a good player. There are plenty of times in fights where if a pld could hg + raise a dead healer it would of saved the fight. because most fights in coil, don\\'t spawn adds after 40% but still have deadly mechanics healers have to deal with.

[Steady]

No. It wouldn't. Not only would you have to hope that you got the timing right on Hallowed's animation so you don't get interrupted and screw up the whole thing altogether, but the -one- time your raid has a LB3 ready and the PLD is one of the few left(Chances? Not good to begin with. You're usually the first dead unless the DPS fails to avoidable mechanics or your heals are not on their game.) isn't enough to make it worth using.

Swiftcast with it, or don't do it at all. Just give them something decent other then half-assing the current skills and trying to make it useful.

Again. You already HAVE the ability. Your not using it. Make it better, and maybe some people will use it. My off the top of my head theoretical doesn't make making a useless ability situationally useful less of a good idea. Hell maybe in that story your Offtanking and getting up a healer on a long cast and the MT War is self healing himself stalling for time.

Really don't get how anyone can argue that bad things turning better is bad. Would it be better still with swiftcast... SURE... what wouldn't be?

[Asierid]

Again. You already HAVE the ability. Your not using it. Make it better, and maybe some people will use it. My off the top of my head theoretical doesn't make making a useless ability situationally useful less of a good idea. Hell maybe in that story your Offtanking and getting up a healer on a long cast and the MT War is self healing himself stalling for time.

Really don't get how anyone can argue that bad things turning better is bad. Would it be better still with swiftcast... SURE... what wouldn't be?

No, it won't make it better. You more than likely won't even have Hallowed Ground up due to some mechanics, even if you did, why would you blow it when you -might (Or won't, lets face it)- save the raid when you can just save the time and die. The "Warrior stalling for time" you mentioned is already dead because self-healing does pretty much null against attacks that are already chunking you down to nothing in progression content. People forget that 8 seconds is a long time, the main tank will more than likely be dead already.

Don't even waste the resources coding it that way, just put them to use in giving PLD something new (A useful DoT/buff combo would be nice. 123 is boring).

Besides, Hallowed Ground is already better than Holmgang. They don't need a rez too.

[Steady]

Lots of talking.

Lol, your telling me, you can't think of a single time where having access to raise, wouldn't be a benefit? None once? Not during a big Fate, or Hunt, or as off tank because

And this thread isn't talking about restructuring PLD.. it's talking about making an existing ability useful. So unless your gonna tell me WHY an in-combat raise is a bad thing, then your not really contributing to the topic.

Far as I'm concerned, you can give it to Black Mage too. The whole Raise being something you can't use in combat doesn't really make sense in the game as a whole.

Maybe your War is tanking Bahamut, swiftcast is down on your healer, your the Off tank, and your healer can't pull off the maintank, so as OT you raise a fallen person.

Anyhow, the examples don't matter. Paladin has an ability they can't use. This solution ATLEAST makes it useable. Whether you think Paladins should raise or not, is about you, not the topic.

[Asierid]

I shouldn't have to explain why standing around for 8 seconds doing nothing is bad as a tank. Pretty self explanatory.

The fact is, and whole point of the arguement, is that the skill as it is now is worthless for PLD. It's made for casters, not us.

They would have to give them their own separate raise, or swiftcast with it. It wouldn't work otherwise. It would useful in FATE/Hunt/other light group content, sure; but in anything else end-game (Which this game is built around, as much as people around here don't want to believe), it's worthless even with your fix.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I shouldn't have to explain why standing around for 8 seconds doing nothing is bad as a tank. Pretty self explanatory.

The fact is, and whole point of the arguement, is that the skill as it is now is worthless for PLD. It's made for casters, not us.

They would have to give them their own separate raise, or swiftcast with it. It wouldn't work otherwise. It would useful in FATE/Hunt/other light group content, sure; but in anything else end-game (Which this game is built around, as much as people around here don't want to believe), it's worthless even with your fix.

I can think of several occasions in endgame dungeons and content where taking 8 seconds to raise a healer or even a bard or summoner would have prevented a wipe and the need to start the fight over again.