Dedicated Thread for Patch 2.55 Story Discussion/Spoilers

[giantslayer]

As for your character, what do you think your character was going to do? Fight the entire standing army of Ul'dah? Do remember the current evidence has set you up as the assassin of the Sultana. Who was going to lead Ul'dah afterward? The sultana was dead. If the syndicate was wiped out, how do you think it would look if you tried to set Raubahn up as leader? The accused assassin of the Sultana aids Raubahn in killing the other leaders and seizing power? The people would turn on him. Imagine if the other GC leaders got involved. Then not only would he look like he had staged a coup but it would also look like he was a puppet set up by foreign powers with the aid of the Scions. We would look as guilty as sin in the eyes of the public.

The whole point of this was we had no good options. We had to retreat cause the only thing that would bring us a just and victorious outcome was one where the truth came out and the guilty were shown for all to see. To quote another saying "only fools rush in."

You make some excellent points. Even if the GC leaders had their hands tied, I still think my character should have stayed and fought.

First of all, allow me to remind you that we are dealing with the Brass Blades and the Crystal Braves. The official standing army of Uldah is the Immortal Flames, who were still under General Raubahn's control (another great reason for everyone to not abandon him).

Do we have to kill all the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves? No. Kill the leaders: Teledji, Lolorito, Ilberd, and that other lalafel. Without leadership, the riff-raff will eventually lose their appetite for death, especially when they see enough bodies piled up at the feet of the General of the Immortal Flames and the legendary Warrior of Light. Most of these people have been bought with coin and they have limited motivation to throw away their lives against someone with god-like powers.

As for the opinion of the common folk, they are already 100% behind me. They already don't believe I killed the Sultana. Everyone in Uldah knows the Syndicate is corrupt and would have no problem believing that they were behind the death of the Sultana and that the Warrior of Light and Raubahn gave them their comeuppance. As the Warrior of Light, I am the greatest hero in the world in the eyes of the common people and a political outsider to Uldah. They will believe what I say and fall in line under Raubahn as the new leader of Uldah. Besides that, Raubahn is already a hero in the eyes of the common man, the General of the Immortal Flames, and was always at the Sultana's side. He is the natural successor in the eyes of the people already.

We don't know about other members of the Syndicate, but we do know that they never anticipated Raubahn would just say "F*** it" and actually kill them. The Syndicate members are selfish opportunists gaming the political and economic systems, not a bunch of possessed lunatics bent on destroying the world. Self-preservation comes first and they would probably try to distance themselves from the plot rather than double-down and put their necks on the line.

[Belhi]

You make some excellent points. Even if the GC leaders had their hands tied, I still think my character should have stayed and fought.

First of all, allow me to remind you that we are dealing with the Brass Blades and the Crystal Braves. The official standing army of Uldah is the Immortal Flames, who were still under General Raubahn's control (another great reason for everyone to not abandon him).

Do we have to kill all the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves? No. Kill the leaders: Teledji, Lolorito, Ilberd, and that other lalafel. Without leadership, the riff-raff will eventually lose their appetite for death, especially when they see enough bodies piled up at the feet of the General of the Immortal Flames and the legendary Warrior of Light. Most of these people have been bought with coin and they have limited motivation to throw away their lives against someone with god-like powers.

As for the opinion of the common folk, they are already 100% behind me. They already don't believe I killed the Sultana. Everyone in Uldah knows the Syndicate is corrupt and would have no problem believing that they were behind the death of the Sultana and that the Warrior of Light and Raubahn gave them their comeuppance. As the Warrior of Light, I am the greatest hero in the world in the eyes of the common people and a political outsider to Uldah. They will believe what I say and fall in line under Raubahn as the new leader of Uldah. Besides that, Raubahn is already a hero in the eyes of the common man, the General of the Immortal Flames, and was always at the Sultana's side. He is the natural successor in the eyes of the people already.

We don't know about other members of the Syndicate, but we do know that they never anticipated Raubahn would just say "F*** it" and actually kill them. The Syndicate members are selfish opportunists gaming the political and economic systems, not a bunch of possessed lunatics bent on destroying the world. Self-preservation comes first and they would probably try to distance themselves from the plot rather than double-down and put their necks on the line.

The Immortal Flames are a standing army for Ul'dah, but as the story stated, they were all moved out of the city. They are tied up on other fronts including the front line against Garlemald. The Brass Blades hold Ul'dah. Even if we took down the Brass Blades, Ul'dah's military strength would be crippled. The Brass Blades handle all of Ul'dah's domestic defence and policing.

Even if we did take out the Brass Blades leaders, who exactly is going to lead or pay them in their stead. The Brass Blades are payed for by the Monetarists. This is assuming that taking out said leadership is that simple or that we have seen all those who hold power. If one lives then Ul'dah is in civil war and the Eorzean alliance is crippled.

As for the commonfolk, yes, they are behind the warrior of Light. They are because the WoL has done nothing to convince them otherwise. However if we aided Raubahn in wiping out the leadership of Ul'dah while under accusation of murdering Nanamo and put Raubahn up as leader, all in one night, how exactly would that look? Rumors would be rife. This would be a straight up coup. The Monetarists had done nothing illegal in detaining us on accusation and though we were innocent, Raubahn did assassinate one of Ul'dah's leaders and thus broke Ul'dah law. We are going to look damn suspicious. Do remember that the second highest Immortal Flame was just shown to be a Garlean spy. The people would likely be open to suspicions they usually wouldn't have had.

When leaders ignore their own laws, it undermines those laws. Such a brutal removal of the Monetarists from power without proof of wrongdoing on their part and without the support of the law would be inviting chaos. No one would trust Raubahn to respect his own laws. Ul'dah would be crippled economically and financially and the second would make Ul'dah's people very unhappy.

[Frederick22]

Picking up some comments I just saw, lets point this things.
1) As on the MSQ and the Trailer, the WoL didnt have his weapon.
2) Maybe choosing to fight would have made things worst. The WoL and the Scions didnt tried to run until the figured out that if they were capture, its most probable that would get killed.
3) The WoL and the Scions were really taken off guard by people they trust or that they thought that were not something to be worried about. Even the greatest warrior of all times, that slay lots of Gods, can be defeated if he is stabbed on his back by surprise.
4) Lot of people said that their WoL was super neutral on his emotions of the events that happened on 2.55. Well that "problem" has been fixed on the Heavensward trailer. We cleary see that the default WoL showing his emotions and anger, and he is us. Just imagine that all he experienced but on us which tenicly is what happened lol.
5) LOL the writting of the story was awesome, common!!! The dead of an important character doesnt mean the the story is wrong hahaha. It makes things better since we are sure that we will have our revenge.

[Frederick22]

About that Ilberd might be Gaius. I think thats totaly ridiculus, since Ilberd and Rauban know each orther since a long time. Also Ilberd said to Rauban, " you become soft ", words from someone that knows him deeper . So it cant be Gaius. Btw who mension that Ala Midgo was taken by the Empire with the same events that happened on Uldah? You mean that the city state was taken by destroying the city from the inside, using corruption and betrayls? I thought that the city was taken just using the full force of their army, maybe using the Agrius?

Sory I couldnt mix my two comments.

[OMEGA_HACK]

About that Ilberd might be Gaius. I think thats totaly ridiculus, since Ilberd and Rauban know each orther since a long time. Also Ilberd said to Rauban, " you become soft ", words from someone that knows him deeper . So it cant be Gaius. Btw who mension that Ala Midgo was taken by the Empire with the same events that happened on Uldah? You mean that the city state was taken by destroying the city from the inside, using corruption and betrayls? I thought that the city was taken just using the full force of their army, maybe using the Agrius?

Sory I couldnt mix my two comments.

"Legatus of the XIVth Legion, the imperial force currently occupying Ala Mhigo, van Baelsar is possessed of a natural flair for wartime command equaled perhaps only by his sensibilities as a governing administrator. Among his numerous accomplishments is the conquest of five enemy cities, the political conversion of which he also oversaw. In subjugating Ala Mhigo, van Baelsar employed subterfuge to stoke the fires of civil unrest, a masterstroke which led to the nation’s capture without the need for a protracted siege. However, the unanticipated appearance of a primal shortly thereafter prompted the Empire to halt the legion’s advance. The legatus has since remained in Ala Mhigo, where he rules as an imperial viceroy."

Taken from the FFXIV website: SOURCE LINK

So yeah, Ala Mhigo is not in ruins instead it is a "future-tech" city-state controlled by the remaining forces of Gaius.

[Belhi]

Ilberd isn't Gaius. He's just a complete bastard. I wonder if Wilred's murder will come back into play at some point. For those that remember Wilred from 2.0, I have a feeling Gundobald is going to be pissed he was murdered. That could end up providing us allies against the Monetarists among the Ala Mhigian resistance.

Ala Mhigo was taken after been drastically weakened by a psychotic king who destroyed the Monk order and in the end was randomly executing people daily. Weakened and without leadership the Garleans just rolled in with little resistance. In this regard, Ul'dah isn't in the same situation as Ala Mhigo but a civil war could result in the same situation.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Ilberd isn't Gaius. He's just a complete bastard. I wonder if Wilred's murder will come back into play at some point. For those that remember Wilred from 2.0, I have a feeling Gundobald is going to be pissed he was murdered. That could end up providing us allies against the Monetarists among the Ala Mhigian resistance.

Ala Mhigo was taken after been drastically weakened by a psychotic king who destroyed the Monk order and in the end was randomly executing people daily. Weakened and without leadership the Garleans just rolled in with little resistance. In this regard, Ul'dah isn't in the same situation as Ala Mhigo but a civil war could result in the same situation.

See my post above yours. Its taken from Square-Enix's website under Threats > The Black Raven. Gaius was the one who caused all that, it wasn't happen stance and luck, it was subterfuge. That's being said I don't think Ilberd is Gaius...not yet anyway; but if their is a tie in I have a feeling that would be that Ilberd ended up being a spy and a high rank Garlean soldier close to Gaius and assumed control of Ala Mhigo (since it was Gaius's troops stationed there, and since Gaius's death Ala Mhigo hasn't been freed due to lack of a ruler); using knowledge gained from Garlean war tactics he infiltrated the Crystal Braves and is helping cause unrest in Ul'dah in an attempt to take over the city much like in the same manner of Ala Mhigo. All guess-work of course though as it hasn't been said in game or through lore.

[Belhi]

See my post above yours. Its taken from Square-Enix's website under Threats > The Black Raven. Gaius was the one who caused all that, it wasn't happen stance and luck, it was subterfuge. That's being said I don't think Ilberd is Gaius...not yet anyway; but if their is a tie in I have a feeling that would be that Ilberd ended up being a spy and a high rank Garlean soldier close to Gaius and assumed control of Ala Mhigo (since it was Gaius's troops stationed there, and since Gaius's death Ala Mhigo hasn't been freed due to lack of a ruler); using knowledge gained from Garlean war tactics he infiltrated the Crystal Braves and is helping cause unrest in Ul'dah in an attempt to take over the city much like in the same manner of Ala Mhigo. All guess-work of course though as it hasn't been said in game or through lore.

So are we saying that Gaius had the ear of the King of Ruin or drove him mad or are we saying he just took advantage of it to seize control of the country? I admit my knowledge just comes from the monk quest NPC Eric.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Gaius actually influenced the civil unrest (destroying monk order, public executions, etc) the exact 'hows' are not told to us yet (if ever) but it was more than likely the use of bribing important people onto his side, using spies to start threatening rumors, etc etc, to make the King paranoid and psychotic to basically destroying his own defenses.

[LLSmoothJ]

Just to add more to the theory that Ilberd is Gaius. Both characters are voiced by Richard Epcar. It does not 100% confirm it, but it sure makes it seem so. Like I said, I believe Gaius fled and used the disguise he used during the Ala Mhigo takeover (that is how he knew Raubahn as a war buddy) as Ilberd and used it to gain the trust of the Scions and Ul'Dah while working with the syndicate in the background to take down the sultanate, which would cause chaos and disorder, giving Gaius(Ilberd) the opportunity to take over Ul'Dah similar to how he did in Ala Mhigo. It...makes sense to me at least.

Hmm... now that I'm thinking about it, I'm starting to believe the Ilberd = Gaius theory. For all we know, "The Ivy" storyline was just a red herring to prove Iberd's loyalty to the Crystal Braves/Scions and put us into a false sense of security in regards to the Garlean Empire.