Fix Sumnmoner

[Razard]

Why are you people even wasting your time mocking requests to change smn by people who play it and obviously want it changed?

There are legitimate flaws with the job other than the obvious Egis and shared class structure of ACN.

Stop trolling.

Here's a game for you. Check all of Akizas posts, control+f the words Summoner or SMN and see how many results you get. The answer may surprise you.

Have fun.

[Hagen]

The thing is, even if we get 3 new summons, the gameplay won't change, there will be one egi that dominates the others. We need a way to swap and combo summons, like a pet rotation or something. Or some new summon related stack system that increases the more we summon and we use it for stuff like Enkindle. The recast on Enkindle is so big and it isn't that powerful. All pet skills have a too long recast so it feels like we don't actually interact with the pet.

[Ryu_Hayabusaa]

Make the Summoner a hybrid Summoner/Elementalist specializing in Massive AoE Bursts with solid Single Target
Enkindle's 300s cool down is to long for the amount of damage it does and should be reduced to 120s

no. just take it out of the game.

[Wintersandman]

The thing is, even if we get 3 new summons, the gameplay won't change, there will be one egi that dominates the others. We need a way to swap and combo summons, like a pet rotation or something. Or some new summon related stack system that increases the more we summon and we use it for stuff like Enkindle. The recast on Enkindle is so big and it isn't that powerful. All pet skills have a too long recast so it feels like we don't actually interact with the pet.

Pet specific buffs would be an easy way to do this. Like Ifrit's Radiant shield.

[Delily]

Exactly. Several people opposing a redesign have argued incoherently ridiculous troll things like "so you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too

When the team went to design and add the summoner class, they had full access to all of FFXI's design. They were quite capable of The warlock's Demonology line in WoW has over timed evolved from being focused on pets to being focused on managing when the player switches into and out of Metamorphosis.you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too[/QUOTE]

When the team went to design and add the summoner class, they had full access to all of FFXI's design. They were quite capable of building a more pet focused summoner, yet, they didn't. Another point to think about. There are issues with pet focused classes in an MMO environment. They don't creep up in solo or group leveling play, but they do pop up in PvP and longer term raiding. Specifically, the issue is about the fact that when the pet is down, that's a huge gap in the player's abilities. In addition, pet commonly share the mob's ai system and are susceptible to exploits and bugs that other classes are not susceptible to.

To answer your question about FFXI, the design was not as solid as you remember. The vast majority of the time, the class was nothing more than a second rate healer with a large magic pool, that was passed over for groups unless you had Fenrir for the buffs. They had their niche moments and abilities (every class did), but in the end, they were no where what Akiza has repeatedly asked for. Again, you need to ask yourself why Yoshi and the others did not implement the class like FFXIV.

For lore purposes, the fact that we're Scions is not all that important. Our group association does not impact that fact that we have the Echo, are resistant to tempering, and absorb some of the primal's aetheric essence when we beat it. Those 2 factors are enough to qualify us for summons. The claim that Scions wouldn't do it is purely ideological. Minifilia and the other never made an indication for or against, so the assumption is they were fine with it.

Finally, "as it's meant to be" is meaningless. When you play a summoner in FFXIV, you are playing the summoner as it's meant to be, on the basis that Square Enix defines what a summoner is and that changes per game. You may not like this design of the class, and that's fine, and it does have problems, as all classes do. The problem is you want a redesign of the class, and it's never been indicated Square would to that.

[SoloWingMetatron]

The problem is you want a redesign of the class, and it's never been indicated Square would to that.

I think it's fair to say SE will not rework SMN from the ground up, coz frankly the SMN in it's current state isn't actually a broken job. It just needs a slight focus shift. People saying it should be reworked into an elemental burst DPS class are way off base. BLM already has the burst DPS corner covered so that's never going to change. SMN works perfectly fine using DoT based attacks so no need to change that. All it needs is a larger focus on Egi with maybe some elemental based DoTs and some tweaks to Enkindle. Some Egi based utility spells would be pretty cool too. Though I think anything support based would more likely go to SCH, since they will need some love to.

[Sunako]

I wonder why players want some kind of big summons that would probably interfere ppl doing some mechanics and for that reason some players probably would not even want to play with summoners anymore. Those big creatures do not fit mmo game at all.

[Akiza]

Summoner lore is consistent throughout Final Fantasy. Summoner's harness the power of the Summons to cause a combined Black Magic and White Magic Effect and call forth Summon Monsters. With their Summon Summoners have enough power to destroy an entire city. The problem is the Summoner doesn't feel very powerful while the Black Mage even though its not putting out insane damage still feels like a very powerful. In any given match up the Summoner will reduce the Black Mage to ash since Summoning Magic is stronger than Black Magic so why did SE make the Summoner feel weak in comparison to the Black Mage when Summoners are so much more powerful.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I wonder why players want some kind of big summons that would probably interfere ppl doing some mechanics and for that reason some players probably would not even want to play with summoners anymore. Those big creatures do not fit mmo game at all.

With foot work/dodging being a key feature in ARR game play it is understandable why a massive Summon could cause issues for other players, such as blocking enemy attack telegraphs and what not. However I think there is room to increase the size of the Egi a little without them negatively effecting game play.

[Akiza]

I wonder why players want some kind of big summons that would probably interfere ppl doing some mechanics and for that reason some players probably would not even want to play with summoners anymore. Those big creatures do not fit mmo game at all.

No one is asking for a Big Summon for a pet the Egis should still be the Permanent Pet but what I'm asking for is a spell that allow us to fuse with the Egi and Summon the Primal like Lady Iceheart. Maybe SE can call it ritual summon and give it to us when we get the Shiva Egi.

Limit Break 3 should be Grand Summon - Summoners summon the Primal and it instantly does its Signature Attack and leave without using Enkindle's cool down.