Simian Thrash ENHANCED!

[Gath]

Sure it is situational. More often than not the stun is preferred. Hell I keep Haymaker, Jarring Strike & Simian Thrash on bar. Most of the time when tanking I will use Haymaker > Jarring Strike on an evade but given the TP and the desire to do damage Simian Thrash is a very viable option.

Making it just another WS, like I said earlier, makes it another Victimize II with a long, flashy animation. It takes away any unique aspect it had to it.

In my opinion, situational high damage counter > long animation Victimize II.

Also, when compared to Jarring Strike II, Simian Thrash adds more than just a "bit of damage."

Well, I know it can be situational and all, I'm just stating the preference that most of the player base has when comparing Jarring Strike and ST, though, I do love to use Victimize, though, if they made it a bit flashier, I would like it a bit more, but that is actually just staying on topic with my OP, I said Victimize was boring and they should change ST because it looks fancy/has the potential to. I also just think using ST 1 out of 10 times is a bit stupid.

[NoctisUmbra]

Well, I know it can be situational and all, I'm just stating the preference that most of the player base has when comparing Jarring Strike and ST, though, I do love to use Victimize, though, if they made it a bit flashier, I would like it a bit more, but that is actually just staying on topic with my OP, I said Victimize was boring and they should change ST because it looks fancy/has the potential to. I also just think using ST 1 out of 10 times is a bit stupid.

The idea is atm Simian Thrash has its own use.

The minute you remove the evade requirement as you suggest it simply becomes a flashy version of Victimize 2 that costs more Action Points. That sounds less useful to me.

Simian Thrash being a move you use 1/10 times may be stupid, but for its purpose it does what it's supposed to do better than any other skill.

Making it a Victimize II with more flash, which you pay for with a higher slot cost, is much more stupid and useless. If the proposed change is this, then I assure you Simian Thrash will never have a place on my bar as Victimize II will always beat it out.

Simian Thrash is fine as is. It can be better. It can be much better. The idea of simply removing the evasion requirement does not make it any better though. Unless you somehow think that they will remove said requirement and still keep it just as powerful - which essentially breaks the balance between 3k TP weaponskills and makes Victimize II useless.

I prefer options, not redundancy for the sake of flash.

[Gath]

The idea is atm Simian Thrash has its own use.

The minute you remove the evade requirement as you suggest it simply becomes a flashy version of Victimize 2 that costs more Action Points. That sounds less useful to me.

Simian Thrash being a move you use 1/10 times may be stupid, but for its purpose it does what it's supposed to do better than any other skill.

Making it a Victimize II with more flash, which you pay for with a higher slot cost, is much more stupid and useless. If the proposed change is this, then I assure you Simian Thrash will never have a place on my bar as Victimize II will always beat it out.

Simian Thrash is fine as is. It can be better. It can be much better. The idea of simply removing the evasion requirement does not make it any better though. Unless you somehow think that they will remove said requirement and still keep it just as powerful - which essentially breaks the balance between 3k TP weaponskills and makes Victimize II useless.

I prefer options, not redundancy for the sake of flash.

Yet, at the moment, Simian Thrash offers NO viable options other than doing DMG when you solo, and when you solo Concussive Blow is a must, so that's 3Ktp, which, for a PUG is nothing, then the need/want for Jarring Strike. Victimize is left last in between Jarring Strike after evades.

EDIT:
Actually, if you want to make things fine and dandy trhat would make ST useful, take the evade off of Jarring Strike and offer a longer CD on it, then you can spend your evade on ST.

[NoctisUmbra]

Yet, at the moment, Simian Thrash offers NO viable options other than doing DMG when you solo, and when you solo Concussive Blow is a must, so that's 3Ktp, which, for a PUG is nothing, then the need/want for Jarring Strike. Victimize is left last in between Jarring Strike after evades.

EDIT:
Actually, if you want to make things fine and dandy trhat would make ST useful, take the evade off of Jarring Strike and offer a longer CD on it, then you can spend your evade on ST.

You seem to be under the impression that the Stun is amazing - so amazing that doing 3x the damage of Jarring Strike II on a counter is not worth it without the Stun.

From what I can tell the Stun is most useful in interrupting the mob's WS. Otherwise you basically slow him down just a bit - and that's assuming you evade so often you effectively keep him unable to do anything. For that purpose, when tanking in a party, I don't see how it is much better than Shock Spikes being cast on you.

The Stun from Jarring Strike is very useful - more useful for certain battles (ie. vs Deepvoid Slave) and when soloing - but I wouldn't say it negates Simian Thrash entirely.

Simian Thrash does more damage than any current WS. It is an effective tool to use when you reach 3k TP. If you use Invigorate II when tanking on PGL like I do, then you will gain 3k TP even with liberal use of Jarring Strike II on evades. Then firing off a Simian Thrash will make quite the dent on the enemy.

Simian Thrash has a purpose: massive damage as punishment to the enemy. Removing the evade requirement removes the purpose.

Also, doing the same to Jarring Strike II will have a similar result. They will increase the TP cost to 1k and up the CD on it considerably. Spamming a Stun move is broken. Certain awesome skills are only that awesome because they require awesome evasion.

Evade a mob 8x in a row (which is awesome btw) and you can keep his ass stunned all the way. I've done this. It feels great.

I'm all for creative changes. Removing the evade requirement is not creative. It simply makes it into another boring WS.

[Gath]

You seem to be under the impression that the Stun is amazing - so amazing that doing 3x the damage of Jarring Strike II on a counter is not worth it without the Stun.

From what I can tell the Stun is most useful in interrupting the mob's WS. Otherwise you basically slow him down just a bit - and that's assuming you evade so often you effectively keep him unable to do anything. For that purpose, when tanking in a party, I don't see how it is much better than Shock Spikes being cast on you.

The Stun from Jarring Strike is very useful - more useful for certain battles (ie. vs Deepvoid Slave) and when soloing - but I wouldn't say it negates Simian Thrash entirely.

Simian Thrash does more damage than any current WS. It is an effective tool to use when you reach 3k TP. If you use Invigorate II when tanking on PGL like I do, then you will gain 3k TP even with liberal use of Jarring Strike II on evades. Then firing off a Simian Thrash will make quite the dent on the enemy.

Simian Thrash has a purpose: massive damage as punishment to the enemy. Removing the evade requirement removes the purpose.

Also, doing the same to Jarring Strike II will have a similar result. They will increase the TP cost to 1k and up the CD on it considerably. Spamming a Stun move is broken. Certain awesome skills are only that awesome because they require awesome evasion.

Evade a mob 8x in a row (which is awesome btw) and you can keep his ass stunned all the way. I've done this. It feels great.

I'm all for creative changes. Removing the evade requirement is not creative. It simply makes it into another boring WS.

Lol everything you said is wrong, your existence is wrong...just saying.
Anyhoo....When you have a lot of other abilities that take priority over ST, when you eventually get to where you can use a damage filler, people just use Victimize II.

My 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

[Murugan]

Lol everything you said is wrong, your existence is wrong...just saying.
Anyhoo....When you have a lot of other abilities that take priority over ST, when you eventually get to where you can use a damage filler, people just use Victimize II.

My 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

I don't know I'd definitely say it is situational. Victimize II's main advantage is that it can be used in a BR, after 1.19 that won't be the case so I think Simian Thrash would be a much better full TP move because it does better damage.

I already use it when soloing, but I could easily fit it into my DD setup or tanking setup. Being our highest damaging ability, and given how fast we are capable of generating TP it isn't really filler. Just maybe a more advanced move to pull off, but all/most classes in the game have this. You just need to know when/how to use it.

[Gath]

I don't know I'd definitely say it is situational. Victimize II's main advantage is that it can be used in a BR, after 1.19 that won't be the case so I think Simian Thrash would be a much better full TP move because it does better damage.

I already use it when soloing, but I could easily fit it into my DD setup or tanking setup. Being our highest damaging ability, and given how fast we are capable of generating TP it isn't really filler. Just maybe a more advanced move to pull off, but all/most classes in the game have this. You just need to know when/how to use it.

Lol, well not using Jarring strike instead of ST makes you very inefficient when you solo. Same with tanking, why not negate the potential damage and save the healer some time. So, yeah as a damaged filler, Victimize II is a much more sound option, but that's after you apply 3 stacks of tue concussive blow debuff.