Red Mage

[Myrhn]

I would like to see rdm as a dps-support job. Having a dps rotation or something on gcd while having some healer and support abilities off gcd with a resonable timer. That way they would be a dps job with capabilities of healing on oh shit moment and supporting the party. I think that would be the more interesting way of doing rdm in my opinion.

[LineageRazor]

Snip.

Well, if we're going to talk about redundancy, that's pretty much at the very core of this game. EVERY job is redundant, by design. Outside of a bare few situations, any job of a given role can be replaced by any other job of a given role. Barring min-maxers' arguments about optimization, you can swap out your SMN for a MNK, your SCH for a WHM, your WAR for a PLD, and still do just fine. Only raids upset this balance (for instance, in places where you absolutely need to have a source of Silence, or where Stoneskin alone won't save the day and Sacred Soil plus Succor is needed as well), and even in those cases, once the raids get opened up to the general public they get nerfs to offset that (such as ADS's paralyze no longer being unremovable).

Whatever role RDM fills in this game, it won't be a role that could not be filled by some other job. The same can be said for ANY new job added to the game. New jobs will be doing the same things old jobs do. Healers will heal. Tanks will tank. DPS will DPS. To escape it would require a substantial change in the design philosophy for FFXIV where ANY job will do, so long as you fit the requisite number of tanks, healers, and DPS.

Whether this means RDM can't exist in this game without betraying the core meaning of being a Red Mage depends entirely on what you consider that core meaning to be. Personally, I'm pretty versatile in my opinion of what RDM is: it should wield a sword, preferably a fencing sword, and it should be able to cast both white and black magic. Beyond that, the sky's pretty much the limit. The white and black magic don't have to be spells used by other jobs, for example - I'm not married to the notion that RDM MUST be able to cast Blizzard and Fire, just like BLMs do, or cast Cure just like WHMs do; they can have their own brand of white and black magic. Or even just magic-like job abilities, like CNJ's Fluid Aura. They don't have to be masters of status spells, like they were in FFXI. They don't have to have enspells, though I personally think that would be a good idea if the plan is to make them DPS.

[SendohJin]

The problem with RDM in XIV is that for it to be implemented in a way that fits into the game's clear-cut holy trinity structure, you'll have to effectively remove most of what even makes a RDM what it is.

a RDM Tank would retain almost all of what makes a RDM a RDM. Melee Fencer with Black and White Magic spells.

it doesn't have to cast Fire for as much damage as a BLM, it doesn't have to Cure for as much as a WHM, it just needs to do both of those things while generating hate and not dying. Hate generation is easy, you can add that to any ability.

between Phalanx + Spike effects + Stoneskin + self cures + high Parry with the fencing swords, not dying should not be all that difficult either.

[dice137]

That's all well and fine, I suppose. I still don't see the place for a hybrid class in XIV without running into some serious design pitfalls in terms of how the content is currently balanced. At least, I can't really see it working well at this current time, personally. Perhaps something about the game will change in the future to accommodate such a thing better.

[Teslo]

That's all well and fine, I suppose. I still don't see the place for a hybrid class in XIV without running into some serious design pitfalls in terms of how the content is currently balanced. At least, I can't really see it working well at this current time, personally. Perhaps something about the game will change in the future to accommodate such a thing better.

People seem to be missing that you don't have to make it hybrid to keep the feel of having both Black and White magic (In addition to being a melee damage dealer).

Imagine a Job that leaps into combat with a single sword. Expertly flowing from one flourishing combo to the next, using TP to power its attacks. TP starts running low... The fabulously dressed combatant in red takes a moment to concentrate as an elemental aura surrounds his weapon. The Red Mage switches to his primary attack stance (Burst phase people, keep up) and unleashes a new set of strikes that blast away at his foe using the power imbued on his weapon. A powerful upward slash forces him into a backflip (Let's call this Rising Slash) and as he lands he launches a powerful blast of elemental energy (Which combos in to Aetherblast) before executing a charging thrust (ends the combo with Piercing Charge). MP is used to power these attacks and this is where the Red Mage will be popping cooldowns to maximize damage. When MP is exhausted the RDM switches to his recharge phase by executing TP moves, once again dealing physical damage, giving his MP time to regen.

So that sounds cool and all, but what about the healing? Good question! Here's where we take a hint from Cleric Stance, only instead of it being called "Cleric Stance" we call it something like "Aethershift". Now, instead of dealing extra elemental damage with each attack, the Red Mage is applying healing to everyone in the party with each attack. Rising Slash heals the party for a % of damage dealt, Aetherblast turns into an AoE heal with a potency of 80 (or whatever), and Piercing Charge applies a minor regen effect to everyone in the group (that lasts about as long as another rotation in the MP phase). This ability would also swap your INT for MND while it's active.

Obviously the healing aspect of the job would have to be tweaked so that it's supportive, but not overpowered. This would be a great way to trade off some DPS to allow healers to rest during a stressful fight. Give healers a little more breathing room if they die during a boss.

In addition to these rotations, the RDM would have cooldowns. Most of these cooldowns would affect the party instead of just the RDM, such as Haste, a 10 - 15 second Skillspeed/Spellspeed/GCD reduction on a 5 minute cooldown. Or Refresh which would be a lot like a party-wide Shroud of Saints (Without the Aggro reduction).

Again, these would all need to be balanced so that the job doesn't step on toes, but I think it would fit in nicely this way.

Yeah, I realize that I'm bad at laying this out like a "Job proposal" but I find that imagining how it would work is more constructive than planning out specifics such as the level at which each skill is acquired. :P

Another idea I was toying with involved giving the Red Mage certain attacks or spells based on the Cross-Class spells he equips, but I think that might be overreaching and a little too complex for the current system. :P

[TruebladeNuke]

You pretty much just described ninja with a new paint job.

I didn't respond to this earlier due to the thread going down through the pages anyway and because I didn't think of any good response at the time, but since this thread is now back up here...

If we're going to go by the paint job logic, you may as well extend that to all the melee DPS roles. By adding in all the details, you'll see each one is different:

DRG: Can give a debuff to the enemy and give extra piercing damage buff for both themselves and BRDs.
NIN: Can give a slashing damage buff to themselves, PLDs, and WARs.
MNK: Can decrease the enemy INT via Dragon Kick, and decreases the target's Blunt resistance. (Only works well for themselves right now as I'm aware)

And that wasn't even all the details. Now lets boil away all those little details and get to the point. What's the number one thing they all have in common with each other?

"ZERG RUSH THEIR FACEZ AND KILL THEM ALL! KEKEKEK!" (With proper DPS rotations preferably)

Seriously though, that's the one thing they all have in common with each other. They kill. Up close. Just like that. In this regard, each and every melee DPS role could be described as another melee DPS role with a different coat of paint. So I don't see how Red Mage should be deterred from getting in just because my earlier description example of how a Red Mage could work sounded similar to Ninjas.

Besides, Red Mage would probably bring a different utility debuff to put on the enemy that would make other DPS roles approve of the Red Mage putting up said debuff on the enemy... or even the Healers and Tanks for that matter.

[DarkStar]

-snip-

I'd play it.

[rwyan]

I agree with some posters in the sense that the current battle system is heavily concentrated on a class/job being a healer/dps/tank. The game doesn't really seem to be designed true hybrid roles. However, I also agree that the spirit or essence of what makes the Red Mage so iconic could be replicated in the current system (using both white magic, black magic in addition to some melee skills to fulfill one of the three roles).

[aerialrave]

Would support this.
Red Mage is the original Pimp from Final Fantasy 1.
Look at that pimp hat:

[MagnamStyle]

RDM for 1st Melee-oriented DoM(Sabre/Thrusting sword)

don't give it a shield we got GLD/PLD already, give him a magic gauntlet/glove or something for the offhand(grimoire?)

make it so that his spells have no cast time AND a melee animation when used in a combo chain ea. sword->sword-> black magic/ white magic(blind for foes, aoe weak heal/regen for party)

using an elemental black magic in the combo then proceeds to en-'element' the RDM, this buff can later be expended to improve an ability OR another that requires an elemental based weapon OR transfer the existing buff to an ally.

casting magic then improves melee abilities like giving them a gapclosing effect or telekinesis(ranged-'melee' attacks)

my idea of a graceful(since getting hit will prolly mean death) melee caster with a nice red hat.