White mage remain gimp because the can go scholar on real content?

[Doyuka]

I liek heal I do vry gud as WHM but I also play SCH

ok done dumbing down to the thread.

ANYWAY! I play both. My brother plays Scholar, so when I play with him I use WHM to complement him, and sometimes when I'm doing stuff by myself I play SCH.

They're both awesomesauce, WHM is bae and SCH is bae E.o.D.

[Isala]

I play both WHM and SCH. I pick my healer based on the fight. I always SCH T5, for instance, because pet soak. But I always WHM T8, because there's a lot of damage spikes, and the stronger Stoneskin means we don't AF the raid. Shiva EX gets the SCH, so I can give my WHM co-healer a chance to go Holy happy on the add phase, while I keep up the tanks, and my near infinite mana pool means I can raise all the DPS who can't even spell dodge. Titan EX gets the WHM, because Cure III is so ridiculously awesome when recovering from his jumps, tumults, or any of his other AoEs. Levi EX gets the SCH, because Eos doesn't care about the healing debuff.

Both healers are fine. If you suck at your WHM, then that's YOUR problem. It's not a White Mage problem.

[UOdhn]

Doesn't sound like this is the OPs first time on the issue, as seen in this thread from 2013 and this other thread from 2014. Also doesn't sound like the OPs learned anything since then. Though he was singing a very different tune here in this thread. Because I'm at work at the moment, I'll reply more thoroughly later.

[radioactive_lego]

[I play SCH for] my near infinite mana pool...

This, and better bring-him-back-from-near-death-ability makes the SCH the better all-round choice. WHM is a fine class but as an all-rounder, second rate.

[KarstenS]

I was in the high end for turn one

So you were actually in a very old turn, that is designed for item level 70, that already got nerfed and on top of that being eased through echo (30%?).

Yes. You are my hero.

[Vlady]

So you were actually in a very old turn, that is designed for item level 70, that already got nerfed and on top of that being eased through echo (30%?).

Yes. You are my hero.

Proof of bad troll. If you would actually read my correction I meant the first coils of bahamut and not just turn 1. I was in a high end static at the time that had the first coils of bahamut on farm and the other white mage played scholar for all content but latest progression pushing. As I said before which remains true and will become painfully truthful the only reason the white mage job is not totally shown for how weak it is overall is because gear is similar enough to share between both jobs.

If they ever made it where only one set of gear would work for one set of job you would see most of the healer base choose to gear up the scholar job because it is the most powerful in the shifting focus of the game requiring less raw healing to providing ample healing with a assortment of powerful utility and offensive abilities. The only and whether or not most want to admit it openly reason that white mage and scholar work better together is because scholars do not stack well. Astrologian if it provides strong healing and an assortment of utility catered to Heavensward content and raids my not so popular view point will quickly become the norm.

White mage only is viable because of gear sharing and sucky scholar stacking. More of an after thought then a real basis of of trying to defend a job badly in need of buffs. And to the person talking about supposedly changing my position on the matter in a previous post (seems to be in line with my general belief?) that was more of wanting duty finder queues to try to do a better job to match up white mage and scholar over just stacking scholars which I have stated is basically dancing on each others toes in a two man dance competition. How wanting to give a white mage a slightly higher priority on queues since white mages stack well together over two scholars is the real reasoning behind that post. How that makes me sing a different tune I cannot comprehend your logic on.

[Ghishlain]

Proof of bad troll. If you would actually read my correction I meant the first coils of bahamut and not just turn 1. I was in a high end static at the time that had the first coils of bahamut on farm and the other white mage played scholar for all content but latest progression pushing. As I said before which remains true and will become painfully truthful the only reason the white mage job is not totally shown for how weak it is overall is because gear is similar enough to share between both jobs.

If they ever made it where only one set of gear would work for one set of job you would see most of the healer base choose to gear up the scholar job because it is the most powerful in the shifting focus of the game requiring raw healing to providing ample healing with a assortment of powerful utility and offensive abilities. The only and whether or not most want to admit it openly reason that white mage and scholar work better together is because scholars do not stack well. Astrologian if it provides strong healing and an assortment of utility catered to Heavensward content and raids my not so popular view point will quickly become the norm.

White mage only is viable because of gear sharing and sucky scholar stacking. More of an after thought then a real basis of of trying to defend a job badly in need of buffs.

I think I'll just re-quote this for you, Vlady.

And now, you really need to address some of the spurious claims you have made and ignored the replies to:

Please show how the SCH heals for the same amount as WHM does in raids, making WHM redundant

Please show how the SCH out DPS' the WHM in all content

Please show how significantly more people play SCH over WHM in "relevant" content.

I've already proven in a substantial post before how wrong you are when comparing select abilities on a one-to-one basis and the fact that the two classes compliment each other quite well as they both provide benefits and utility that should be stacked together to provide maximum benefits, such as:

Adlo + Stoneskin versus Tank Busters
Proshell + Fey Illumination + Succor for heavy raid damage

I'll just re-iterate again.

SCH Virus = WHM Virus versus most FCoB tank busters (only exception being Akh Morn - where you probably want a WHM using Cure III on the two tanks to help maintain their HP if they're both eating it without invulnerability)
Proshell provides better overall mitigation versus Fey Illumination when you look at the two on an individual basis - Stacking both is ideal, however
Stoneskin is only slightly weaker than Adlo on equally geared tanks/healers - Again, you generally want to stack both in any tank buster scenario

Right now, what you've repeated over and over again is your opinion without any real basis to back you up aside from "it's my opinion". How is it "painfully truthful the only reason the white mage job is not totally shown for how weak it is overall is because gear is similar enough to share between both jobs"? Prove to us why SCH has better utility. Prove to us how SCH can make a better raid healer versus a WHM in T13.

By the by, once again, I will say just because we "see" more SCHs than WHMs on our data cluster can mean several things:

(1) Healers prefer SCH more than WHM
(2) SMNs not wanting to face the DPS queue for X reason are playing SCH to beat the queue
(3) Our Data Cluster just happens to have more SCH players versus WHM players - other data cluster may be different

I'll add one more point to this list

(4) Some players may prefer to play SCH because it allows them to be a bit lazier due to fairy auto heals (it's a terribly legitimate reason)


Additionally, we won't know if WHM will get benched until we get the following:

(1) The AST toolkit
(2) What new WHM tools there are
(3) What new SCH tools there are
(4) How Alexander fights are designed

Right now, you are giving your opinion WHM will be benched based on absolutely nothing aside from the fact AST can shield, heavy heal, and buff via cards.

-For all we know, they might give WHM Afflatus Solace from XI, which gives the target a Stoneskin based on a % of the amount cured while the ability is active (IE, hey, WHMs now have their own version of Adlo!) - Why bring a SCH anymore why not only can WHM cure harder, but also give a potent shield to boot?
-Or, they might make AST so ridiculously overpowered that EVERYONE will bring double AST, thus benching BOTH WHM and SCH
-Or, AST might be so weak players will just default to WHM + SCH again.
-Or, S-E may release a fight in Alexander where all damage dealt by the boss cannot be mitigated, at all, thus negating one of SCHs key assets in their tool kit and encourage everyone to bring WHM + AST.

At this juncture, we do not know what the healing meta is going to be in the expansion and speaking all doom and gloom about any healing role at this stage only makes you look foolish.


Finally, I'm still not sure how separating the gear sets will help either. As it stands right now, WHMs tend to gear towards DET and PIE while SCHs more towards CRIT, so there's already a difference in gear options there. Adding another set of healing gear "just to separate" the two would only server to irritate the player base more as there is ANOTHER gear set in the loot pool to RNG about. Also, this means you'll be forcing players to pick a healer on a long term basis instead of encourage them to try the other healer role in case they get bored of their main. I enjoy being able to go between the two because I play SCH for Coil since my healing partner only has WHM leveled but I like the ability to pick the "right toolkit" for the task. I'm not sure why you would want to take that away from the healers.

Please, answer all the above. A few of us are still waiting for a legitimate response.

[seekified]

You're seriously worried that SE would be dumb enough to break the healer balance so badly that one of the jobs gets benched? No. AST may be flexible and able to cover both roles, but I suspect that neither will they be able to switch between the roles without penalty in battle (as implied by the devs), nor will they be "better" at either function than WHM or SCH would be.

Right now, you want a WHM and a SCH for all non-steamroll content. In 3.0 you could probably bring two ASTs who use one stance each for an entire run (and gear accordingly to their chosen specialty), but I sincerely doubt that in so doing you wouldn't miss having some of the non-crossclassable abilities that the current jobs offer.

[Yare]

White mage only is viable because of gear sharing....

So let me try to understand this. You are not pleased at the fact that the shared healer gears seem to benefit WHM more than SCH. You think SE makes shared healer gears benefit WHM more because WHM is gimp. I don't think this is really the case. These stats shouldn't really bother or hinder either classes' performance in majority of game contents. I said that b/c I am able to heal fine as SCH or WHM in whatever gear I get. Need to go to work soon and shall examine all the ilv130 healer gears when I get home to see if WHM has been unjustly favoured by SE.

[Cynfael]

So let me try to understand this. You are not pleased at the fact that the shared healer gears seem to benefit WHM more than SCH. You think SE makes shared healer gears benefit WHM more because WHM is gimp. I don't think this is really the case. These stats shouldn't really bother or hinder either classes' performance in majority of game contents. I said that b/c I am able to heal fine as SCH or WHM in whatever gear I get. Need to go to work soon and shall examine all the ilv130 healer gears when I get home to see if WHM has been unjustly favoured by SE.

Yeah, I don't see how secondaries on i130 gear are totally making or breaking either Job. There are plenty of fail pieces to avoid all around since many healer items come stacked with spell speed. The Ironworks pants are about as big a slap to WHMs as the Dreadwyrm robe is to SCHs ("here's your preferred secondary, and enjoy a side of garbage").