Why I have no interest in Coils more specifically, T9.

[Zohar_Lahar]

As someone who ran WoD within the first few hours of it going live, completely blind, with 23 other people going in blind, we wiped to mechanics that are painfully obvious now. The only reason you can one-shot it now is because people know the fights, even if you don't.

Besides, it's MEANT to be far easier than Coil. Any hardcore raid in any game involves wipes while learning how to deal with mechanics.

Then why does it drop equipment with a higher item level (including base attributes) than T9? Even the High Allagan Weapons are only on par with Shiva Extreme, which is far more sensible in terms of mechanics. The fact that Dreadwyrm gear is only equal to Augmented Ironworks Magitek or Zeta weapons makes me question the current difficulty of the entirety coil.

[gamesmart]

Then why does it drop equipment with a higher item level (including base attributes) than T9? Even the High Allagan Weapons are only on par with Shiva Extreme, which is far more sensible in terms of mechanics. The fact that Dreadwyrm gear is only equal to Augmented Ironworks Magitek or Zeta weapons makes me question the current difficulty of the entirety coil.

Because that's how vertical progression works. Newer content is designed around a higher item level, and the Crystal Tower series is meant to assist in the gearing up for tackling those raids. Also, you don't put highest tier gear ONLY in the raids.

Another thing to remember is gear isn't indicative of skill. There are people toting i130 Augmented Ironworks and maybe Zetas that can be outperformed by someone in i90. Gear doesn't carry you through raids that require teamwork and personal skill (T5 anyone?).

[Zohar_Lahar]

Because that's how vertical progression works. Newer content is designed around a higher item level, and the Crystal Tower series is meant to assist in the gearing up for tackling those raids. Also, you don't put highest tier gear ONLY in the raids.

Another thing to remember is gear isn't indicative of skill. There are people toting i130 Augmented Ironworks and maybe Zetas that can be outperformed by someone in i90. Gear doesn't carry you through raids that require teamwork and personal skill (T5 anyone?).

I still don't see why T9 has some a strict dance routine, since nothing in Crystal Tower or Main Scenario is this unforgiving, and as I said, WoD gives stronger equipment while actually being fun. And for all the talk about coil is supposed to be "hardcore," the quest log and duty finder pages for the Coils turns made absolutely no effort to indicate it wasn't casual content like 95% of everything before it, so you can't expect people to not take offense at the difficulty. At least the Extreme primals let you know up front it's going to be harder.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I still don't see why T9 has some a strict dance routine, since nothing in Crystal Tower or Main Scenario is this unforgiving, and as I said, WoD gives stronger equipment while actually being fun. And for all the talk about coil is supposed to be "hardcore," the quest log and duty finder pages for the Coils turns made absolutely no effort to indicate it wasn't casual content like 95% of everything before it, so you can't expect people to not take offense at the difficulty. At least the Extreme primals let you know up front it's going to be harder.

For one, WoD came out AFTER T9 did, WoD came out after T13 did. So that complaint isnt really valid. Also, you originally had to have a premade party to even enter coil, as you do with the current raid. They weren't even IN DF to begin with.

[Zohar_Lahar]

For one, WoD came out AFTER T9 did, WoD came out after T13 did. So that complaint isnt really valid. Also, you originally had to have a premade party to even enter coil, as you do with the current raid. They weren't even IN DF to begin with.

But they are on Duty Finder now, just like World of Darkness and Keeper of the Lake. So why shouldn't we expect the difficulty to remain consistent with other content on Duty Finder? Do you see the word (Hardcore) next to the area names in the opening cinematic for Coil Turns? The text in-game makes no effort to distinguish the mechanical difficulty between "Crystal Tower" raid or "Binding Coil" raids.

The fact toxic elitists like to treat those who haven't cleared T5/T9 with contempt or condescendingly claim Coil is "easy" only makes this much worse.

[gamesmart]

But they are on Duty Finder now, just like World of Darkness and Keeper of the Lake. So why shouldn't we expect the difficulty to remain consistent with other content on Duty Finder? Do you see the word (Hardcore) next to the area names in the opening cinematic for Coil Turns? The text in-game makes no effort to distinguish the mechanical difficulty between "Crystal Tower" raid or "Binding Coil" raids.

Why SHOULD we expect the difficulty to be in line with stuff DESIGNED to be easier than it just because it's accessible from the same spot? The text makes no effort to distinguish the difficulty because it doesn't need to. The first set of turns is easy enough, but raises enough warning flags to tell people to stay away from them if they don't want to dive head-first into raiding. Besides, there's always other, you know, people to talk to about it.

[hallena]

But they are on Duty Finder now, just like World of Darkness and Keeper of the Lake. So why shouldn't we expect the difficulty to remain consistent with other content on Duty Finder? Do you see the word (Hardcore) next to the area names in the opening cinematic for Coil Turns? The text in-game makes no effort to distinguish the mechanical difficulty between "Crystal Tower" raid or "Binding Coil" raids.

The fact toxic elitists like to treat those who haven't cleared T5/T9 with contempt or condescendingly claim Coil is "easy" only makes this much worse.

You know something is wrong with both the community and the duty finder when people assume if its on the DF it should be easy and free loot.
As for "Toxic elitist" in this game, some elitist are mostly mean because they are sick of bad players trying to get the only 4 hard boss in the game nerfed because literally the rest of the game is not enough for you.
Believe it or not, but not everyone is part of the facebook generation. There are still humans out there who enjoy overcoming challenges instead of waiting to be spoonfed.

[Zohar_Lahar]

You know something is wrong with both the community and the duty finder when people assume if its on the DF it should be easy and free loot.
As for "Toxic elitist" in this game, some elitist are mostly mean because they are sick of bad players trying to get the only 4 hard boss in the game nerfed because literally the rest of the game is not enough for you.

That's how they set up the game. Everything besides Coil is very casual and welcoming. How can you condemn us for expecting the game to be consistent? Thank you at least for demonstrating how Coil is creating a toxic atmosphere in this game.

[Kosmos992k]

As for "Toxic elitist" in this game, some elitist are mostly mean because they are sick of bad players trying to get the only 4 hard boss in the game nerfed because literally the rest of the game is not enough

So, let me get this straight, you are stating that there are players who are jerks to others in-game because they are upset that some random person on the Internet went to SE's forum and asked for something to be made easier?

Really?

I mean, really?

Holy crap, talk about a razor thin justification for poor behavior.

[siverstorm]

But they are on Duty Finder now, just like World of Darkness and Keeper of the Lake. So why shouldn't we expect the difficulty to remain consistent with other content on Duty Finder? Do you see the word (Hardcore) next to the area names in the opening cinematic for Coil Turns? The text in-game makes no effort to distinguish the mechanical difficulty between "Crystal Tower" raid or "Binding Coil" raids.

The fact toxic elitists like to treat those who haven't cleared T5/T9 with contempt or condescendingly claim Coil is "easy" only makes this much worse.

I'm gonna regret getting involved in this silly thread again but....

By that logic why isn't titan hm held at the same difficulty as cape westwind or chimera? All level 50 content?

There are ilvl requirements tied to most post-50 content. The raid content with no ilvl requirement is also locked behind full-party requirement to queue.

Fun fact, WoD has an i90 requirement and, lo and behold, so does turn 6. Difficulty might be subjective but for the most part with nerfs/echo on SCoB I'd consider them roughly equivalent. We might treat ilvl as irrelevant when people talk about how geared they are (skill > gear) but you could still use the DF ilvl requirements as a rough retrospect on the difficulty curve of the content in DF. If you feel that you should be able to faceroll everything at minimum ilvl then you really need to re-evaluate what you want out of ffxiv combat, and by extension mmo combat.

It kinda feels like you're dismissing everyone as a "toxic elitist" if they're able to clear content though. Most of the people in here who have cleared have said it time and time again that it required weeks of learning and wiping in their static and never really outright said "it's easy we just died a lot to figure it out". Sure, I could ~say~ t13 is easy to me now because I know how to perform the mechanics. Was it "easy" on the first night in there? Absolutely not. It's not like the guilds that cleared it in the first two weeks oneshot it on their first attempts. Of course I won't dismiss the fact that truly toxic players exist,

It sounds like you want an MMO with no content that's even remotely challenging? They did say they were going to make two versions of Alexander, so I hope the easier one at least caters to what you were expecting. They did also say there would still be a level of difficulty with the easier version but we won't know exactly how much of a comparison it'll be until expac.

Over time with the EX primals which also required a static to clear for the first 3-6 months (or longer) of their life, SCOB and FCOB which require not only clearing T5, but also having a static, the separation between raiding community and everyone else has grown. Coil gear drops have consistently been the best in slot and highest ilvl in the game further emphasizing the difference between haves and have nots.

Personally, I hope that the 3.0 expansion addresses some of these issues. having a normal mode version of the raid content - without the gear drops - would go a long way to fixing things, and that is something that has been confirmed in 3.0.

I'm not going to comment on your opinions on content requiring a static/loot lockouts, it's a fairly common MMO gamestyle and you don't agree with it. I do want to clarify something in your post. I also agree with your last statement and hope that having the normal and hard mode raid content alleviates some of the community negativity.

1st: EX primals did not require a static. Back in 2.1 I have been in many successful pug parties and many failed parties. Some of the later EX's were either significantly more difficult for pugs (e.g. Mog or Ramuh ex) or much less harsher (e.g. shiva ex). I also cleared titan hm back when it was the wall in 2.0 and I'm on considerably a mid-pop server. Fairly healthy raiding population, some groups that outshine others, exceptionally skilled players around, but it's no "Gilgamesh".

2nd: Every tier has had equivalent ilvl tome gear, and in SCoB and FCoB tiers they even released weapons at the exact same ilvl as the hardest fight both tiers. Your argument literally only holds for 2.1 when t5 was the only i95 weapon. BiS is always a mix of gear, hell most Bard BiS sheets involve the bloody i120 WoD chestpiece.
They made an attempt to have a gear progression with the "sands of time"/"carbontwine" items. Yeah it was only available to raiders at the start, but then they opened the floodgates via the towers and hunts. If you had a problem with that then I don't really know what to tell ya.