The problem with Summoners

[Craiger]

Summoner needs to specialize in Aoe Bursts since DoT is useless in a game like this unless it's a secondary role like in the case of a Scholar. Enkindle's cool down should be reduced to 2min and the cool down should be tied to the pet instead of being a global cool down. Energy Drain shouldn't consume Aetherflow stacks. Summoner should be based on the Elementalist/Shaman in order to resemble the classic image of the Final Fantasy Summoner rather than a Necromancer.

Why is DoTs useless in this game?

Makes no sense that they should specialize in AoE burst... why would anyone bring you to a raid with that? If you need AoE(both burst and sustained), then BLM is light years ahead, and SE putting SMN ahead of BLM on AoE, would be the most stupid thing they could do.

SMN should be a job with high single target sustained DPS, while BLM is the AoE kings with high burst.

I see a lot of people who wants more AoE for SMN, but are all talking about dungeon runs or something? because it's not the lack of AoE that's causing the low amount of SMNs in raids...

[Akiza]

Why is DoTs useless in this game?

Makes no sense that they should specialize in AoE burst... why would anyone bring you to a raid with that? If you need AoE(both burst and sustained), then BLM is light years ahead, and SE putting SMN ahead of BLM on AoE, would be the most stupid thing they could do.

SMN should be a job with high single target sustained DPS, while BLM is the AoE kings with high burst.

I see a lot of people who wants more AoE for SMN, but are all talking about dungeon runs or something? because it's not the lack of AoE that's causing the low amount of SMNs in raids...

People want Summoner to have more AoE because SE stance on Melee having high single target sustained DPS while casters have low sustained single target damage. Also most modern MMORPGS since DCUO which have DoT classes give them 3-4 reliable AoE Bursts while DoTs are secondary. Most modern MMORPG s the Pet class is attached to the Sorceror.

[zeroaru]

People want Summoner to have more AoE because SE stance on Melee having high single target sustained DPS while casters have low sustained single target damage. <snip>

"People" =/= "akiza" ?

I don't want more AoE. I want bane spread limitation lifted but other than that I want to reliably maintain sustainable single target DPS above that of a BLM. BLM can keep the AoE crown, SMN doesn't need it.

You really need to stop comparing FFXIV to other MMOs. DCUO especially is a terrible example since even tanks are pointless in half of the end game. FFXIV is a different beast to be tamed in a different way. If you're going to contribute to threads like these please make it meaningful instead of "Summoner needs to be "X class" from "X title" because of "X traditional reason" but also needs to be like "X competitor MMO class". It's contradiction not construction.

XIV doesn't need to be a clone of other MMOs to appease you. You can just play other MMOs.

[Akiza]

"People" =/= "akiza" ?

I don't want more AoE. I want bane spread limitation lifted but other than that I want to reliably maintain sustainable single target DPS above that of a BLM. BLM can keep the AoE crown, SMN doesn't need it.

You really need to stop comparing FFXIV to other MMOs. DCUO especially is a terrible example since even tanks are pointless in half of the end game. FFXIV is a different beast to be tamed in a different way. If you're going to contribute to threads like these please make it meaningful instead of "Summoner needs to be "X class" from "X title" because of "X traditional reason" but also needs to be like "X competitor MMO class". It's contradiction not construction.

XIV doesn't need to be a clone of other MMOs to appease you. You can just play other MMOs.

People have been complaining about Summoner since day one do even if I stopped complaining 3 more people would take my place and complain aout the Summoner. DoT classes are useless in fast pace games like FFXIV because DPS can bursts enemies down before DoTs get their full duration which is a DPS loss to Summoner being mostly DoT. That's why for this game Summoner should be a Summoner/Ekementalist with the Pet specializing Massive AoE Bursts Damage.

[Keyln]

People have been complaining about Summoner since day one do even if I stopped complaining 3 more people would take my place and complain aout the Summoner. DoT classes are useless in fast pace games like FFXIV because DPS can bursts enemies down before DoTs get their full duration which is a DPS loss to Summoner being mostly DoT. That's why for this game Summoner should be a Summoner/Ekementalist with the Pet specializing Massive AoE Bursts Damage.

I disagree. While burst type jobs can do great damage up front, it requires a huge amount of resources to do so, usually in the form of MP. Over a medium period of time, say a minute, a DoT class and a burst class will do the same amount of damage in that period of time. That's good balance. Over a longer period of time, the DoT, played properly, can pull ahead of the burster in terms of damage done.

That's not to say that Summoner could use improvements, especially in the AoE department. I don't think anyone is asking that SMN be ahead of BLM, but some equity with the above in mind would be in order.

[Craiger]

People have been complaining about Summoner since day one do even if I stopped complaining 3 more people would take my place and complain aout the Summoner. DoT classes are useless in fast pace games like FFXIV because DPS can bursts enemies down before DoTs get their full duration which is a DPS loss to Summoner being mostly DoT. That's why for this game Summoner should be a Summoner/Ekementalist with the Pet specializing Massive AoE Bursts Damage.

No offense, but do you raid?

Raid fights are long, and burst damage doesn't matter on those... where it matters are adds, and yes, SMN are weaker on those than BLM, but if SMN have higher sustained DPS than BLM in 3.0, then that would be good too.

Also, how would AoE burst help SMN in raids?

Raids are what matters, cause if we're gonna balance towards other content, then MNK's are f'cking useless for example...

EDIT: Not everyone raids, but that's what the balancing is made for, that's why I said that...

[Akiza]

No offense, but do you raid?

Raid fights are long, and burst damage doesn't matter on those... where it matters are adds, and yes, SMN are weaker on those than BLM, but if SMN have higher sustained DPS than BLM in 3.0, then that would be good too.

Also, how would AoE burst help SMN in raids?

Raids are what matters, cause if we're gonna balance towards other content, then MNK's are f'cking useless for example...

EDIT: Not everyone raids, but that's what the balancing is made for, that's why I said that...

Bursts Damage does matter in Raids because they have adds that need to be killed fast or its a Wipe that's why Black Mage is preferred over Summoner. I
In long fights DoT classes lose damage over time because their damage starts off high than deteriorates faster than Direct Damage Dealers. That's how Summoners Damage works and that's why they make poor single target classes.
In MMORPG's DoT classes specialize in Crowd Control because they can cause negative status effects and slowly drain mobs health like the WoW Warlock. Since there is no need for crowd control in this game DoT classes are Shield Healers.

[Craiger]

Bursts Damage does matter in Raids because they have adds that need to be killed fast or its a Wipe that's why Black Mage is preferred over Summoner. I
In long fights DoT classes lose damage over time because their damage starts off high than deteriorates faster than Direct Damage Dealers. That's how Summoners Damage works and that's why they make poor single target classes.
In MMORPG's DoT classes specialize in Crowd Control because they can cause negative status effects and slowly drain mobs health like the WoW Warlock. Since there is no need for crowd control in this game DoT classes are Shield Healers.

You said AoE burst... And unless you have many adds stacked together, that doesn't matter. SMN needs a little more burst damage, not AoE burst damage.

DoT damage doesn't deteriorate faster than direct damage... A DoT does the exact same damage at the beginning as it does at the end, and as long as the DoT lasts the full duration, there are no difference between DoTs and Direct damage.

SMNs strong point is sustained DPS, meaning they are best at keeping their DPS high at longer fights, just like MNKs. They don't have high enough DPS, but that has nothing to do with how their abilities work...

It's not like DoTs deliver a different kind of damage or something, it just splits up the damage into smaller portions over time, the total damage is exactly as high.

The reason BLM does more DPS than SMN right now, doesn't have to do with DoTs not doing as much damage, it has to do with SMNs spells not being balanced right, and Spell Speed doesn't work for SMN, which you get a lot from the current gear.

If you increase the damage on SMNs DoTs enough, you'll have as high DPS as a MNK or NIN, and that doesn't change in a long fight, because SMN is best at longer fights (in regards to sustained DPS, not MP)


Who cares what other MMORPGs do things?