The 2.5 (Part 1 & 2) speculation thread

[PArcher]

Ishgard has no towns that are not military bases. Breath weapons on fotresses aren't exactly easy targets. I'm not going to start pinning war crimes on either side til I see it in character.

Wrong.

Just go do the DRG quests (or look them up). The DRG antagonist was the sole survivor of Nidhogg's rampage around his hometown (however, remember there was a bit more to it than just that, esp after the previous Azure Dragon's confession)

[jomoru]

Wrong.

Just go do the DRG quests (or look them up). The DRG antagonist was the sole survivor of Nidhogg's rampage around his hometown (however, remember there was a bit more to it than just that, esp after the previous Azure Dragon's confession)

And we have seen no towns in game controlled by Ishgard that don't double as military targets. I'm not saying dragons are perfect moral warriors following all the rules of modern warfare, though I am saying we only get the perspective of the Ishgardians who have reason to say "This fortress filled with Dragon killing weapons is perfectly innocent and any attack on it is unjustified!"

[Belhi]

And we have seen no towns in game controlled by Ishgard that don't double as military targets. I'm not saying dragons are perfect moral warriors following all the rules of modern warfare, though I am saying we only get the perspective of the Ishgardians who have reason to say "This fortress filled with Dragon killing weapons is perfectly innocent and any attack on it is unjustified!"

We have hardly seen much of Ishgard proper and you have to remember those bunkers on the route between the Observatory and Camp Dragonhead are specifically to house peasants during dragon attacks to keep them from being easy pray. If they are military structures then they exist solely to keep the dragons from slaughtering the non military targets.

I'm not say either side is in the right. I suspect both sides have long since been fighting a brutal and ruthless war. I don't however think the Dragons are simply misunderstood. I think there is a lot more to the war than has been presented for either side and the final quest in the DRG story only strengthens my suspicions of that, not just because of the story of the village but the actual conclusion and battle and how it ends.

[jomoru]

We have hardly seen much of Ishgard proper and you have to remember those bunkers on the route between the Observatory and Camp Dragonhead are specifically to house peasants during dragon attacks to keep them from being easy pray. If they are military structures then they exist solely to keep the dragons from slaughtering the non military targets.

I'm not say either side is in the right. I suspect both sides have long since been fighting a brutal and ruthless war. I don't however think the Dragons are simply misunderstood. I think there is a lot more to the war than has been presented for either side and the final quest in the DRG story only strengthens my suspicions of that, not just because of the story of the village but the actual conclusion and battle and how it ends.

I am not saying dragons are pure moral warriors vs the Evil blacker than black ishgard. I am saying any statement from Ishgard about Dragon atrocities are distinctly suspect. I mean who knows HOW long the Ascians have been directing the war? They could have started it for all we know. There is a distinct impression I get from the setup that early Ishgard was probably founded with the AID of the dragons and that's why Shiva was a Saint then. Even the Dragoon ending talks about returning things to the way they were.

[lololink]

There is a distinct impression I get from the setup that early Ishgard was probably founded with the AID of the dragons and that's why Shiva was a Saint then. Even the Dragoon ending talks about returning things to the way they were.

That seems unlikely the story of the creation of Ishgard don't seem to be a lie, Ishgard already looks like to be the bad guys in their own story. The dragons wanting to the returns things to the way they were means to kick the Ishgardians out of Coerthas.

[treuhavik]

There is a distinct impression I get from the setup that early Ishgard was probably founded with the AID of the dragons and that's why Shiva was a Saint then.

The Enchiridion, holy scripture for the Ishgardian faith, brands Shiva the Original Heretic ─ the first to succumb to the temptation of the dragons. Her followers, however, venerate her as a saint who tried, yet failed, to bring together man and dragon through her own selfless sacrifice.

EDIT:

The dragons wanting to the returns things to the way they were means to kick the Ishgardians out of Coerthas.

I'm not validating the above statement, but if true, would that make them any better than the Ascians?

The Ascians just want to make things as they were before (whatever that truly means), which would kick humanity out of existance, presumably. And, Just like Ishgard, the people of Hydaelyn want to keep living and doing as they please. All sides want what they want and are willing to do whatever necessary for it. Does this make any one's cause more just than anothers?

Maybe... Please look forward to it!

[myahele]

These are the translated Heavensward Trailer lyrics

Beneath the gazing stars...
Vales deep and forest dark...
Betrayed by loyal hands,
our wrath stir.
Bound fast unto our fate...
One path, one burden great...
Yet ever do our aching souls point Heavensward!
And ever rings out our song...

Dragon part (Dragon / English)
Dis an sô / Our slumber disturbed
Rus at hi / My brothers wake
Sal'jas afarr'a / Vengeance will be ours
Ma mor nâ, Eorzea! / The saviors must perish!

I always thought that the early Ishgardians had a deal/ "covenant" with the Dravanian Dragons in some way that was broken by the Ishagardians 1000 years ago. Wasn't it said that Coerthas was originally Dravanian territory?

Eitherway, the Dravanian Wyrmmking called out and it seems to be a VERY big deal to the point that even Midgardsomnr was (originally) compelled to join in.

[treuhavik]

I always thought that the early Ishgardians had a deal/ "covenant" with the Dravanian Dragons in some way that was broken by the Ishagardians 1000 years ago.

The conditions in which Thordan and his followers met their first Wyrm King (Nidhogg) were...less than amiable. Being that this event occurred at the founding of the nation of Ishgard, you can probably imagine that it may have set the tone for Dravanian-Ishgardian relations ...in that it started The Dragonsong War.

If anything, the opposite of a covenant was forged on this day.

This same war is also known as "The Thousand Year War" because these events took place 1000 years ago, circa 577 of the Sixth Astral Era. If there was a break in that timeline that we don't know about, by way of any treaty or truce of note, I don't think that title would be in use.

In other words; No, Ishgard was only founded 1000 years ago.

Wasn't it said that Coerthas was originally Dravanian territory?

Whether it was confirmed or not, I'm not sure, but it's certainly assumed that this was the case (not all of Coerthas, but the general area in which the city proper resides). It's also possible that this location is not only a "Holy Land" for Ishgardians, as they claim, but for Dravanians as well.

[lololink]

I'm not validating the above statement, but if true, would that make them any better than the Ascians?

The Ascians just want to make things as they were before (whatever that truly means), which would kick humanity out of existance, presumably. And, Just like Ishgard, the people of Hydaelyn want to keep living and doing as they please. All sides want what they want and are willing to do whatever necessary for it. Does this make any one's cause more just than anothers?

Maybe... Please look forward to it!

Well that depends on what happened to Zodiark and the Ascian we miss a lot of informations here, the dragons have been invaded by the Ishgardians and try to take back the Coerthas for 1000 years. At the beginning of the war they were in their right, now it's just a pointless bloodbath.

[Celvantis]

I always thought that the early Ishgardians had a deal/ "covenant" with the Dravanian Dragons in some way that was broken by the Ishagardians 1000 years ago. Wasn't it said that Coerthas was originally Dravanian territory?

The elezen "presence predating that of the other races". While not stated, it is implied the dravanians are originally from Meracydia and settled due to the Allag.
The Dravanian claim over Coerthas is pretty shakey at best.