The problem with Summoners

[Brianmj]

The problem with Summoners is that many of them are unappreciative of the current iteration's play style. Instead of realizing this isn't for me, I should try another job, the therapeutic method is to create threads and posts ad nauseam trashing someone's work of art, someone's creation.

[DarkmoonVael]

The problem with Summoners is that many of them are unappreciative of the current iteration's play style. Instead of realizing this isn't for me, I should try another job, the therapeutic method is to create threads and posts ad nauseam trashing someone's work of art, someone's creation.

Where as this is quite true, there are also some technical issues stemming from SCH/SMN sharing the same base class that do need addressing moving forward. If you look at the latest buffs the SMN got with ruin/ruin 2, the devs acknowledged that this is all they really could do as anything else may have made SCH too powerful.

[Akiza]

The problem with Summoners is that many of them are unappreciative of the current iteration's play style. Instead of realizing this isn't for me, I should try another job, the therapeutic method is to create threads and posts ad nauseam trashing someone's work of art, someone's creation.

There are a few ways to buff the Summoner without buffing Scholar. SE could have reduced the cool down on Enkindle to give the Summoner more reliable bursts. Buffed the the Egis damage so Summoner don't have to rely on deteriorating damage of DoTs.
SE should've put an emphasis and focus on Summoning Magic and Pets instead of Dots. The Summoner has both technical and them issues. From a technical stand point Summoners are a poorly optimized DPS because DoTs which are their main source of damage rapidly deteriorates and plateaus faster than any other DPS. Also from a technical stand point the Summoner as it is now doesn't have a place in groups because the game is designed around bursting enemies down as quickly as possible and putting out tons of Dps. The Black Mage procs and has Flare to bursts mobs down fast and efficiently. The Monk has blunt damage and high sustained dps. The Dragoon has blunt damage and some AoE. Ninja has madras, bursts and can evade. The Bard has songs to buff the group and can front load damage on demand which justifies its low DPS. The Summoner brings nothing to the group I would go as far to say the Summoner brings less than nothing to the group dynamic because it doesn't excel in any area damage is lackluster, Bursts is mediocre and they have poor sustain damage. The overall theme of the Summoner is in question as well because it was lazily designed and as a result it is simply an Arcanist with a few extra abilities since it emphasizes and focuses on DoT Poisoning Magic. This game is designed around high sustain damage, blunt and bursts damage because mobs are burned down before the Summoner can get their full rotation on it causing dps loss. Bosses are a massive DPS check and require high sustained damage, blunt and bursts damage to progress in Raids. SE should re focus the Summoner around an emphasis on Summoning Magic and Pets making the Summoner a bursts dps since that fits better with the way this game designed.

The Summoner is already extinct coming into 3.0 so at this point their is already a massive amount of people already pissed off with the way the Summoner has been handled. Almost everyone will be happy with a Summoner re design except for that one person on the server still playing Summoner.

[Lilyarel]

The problem with Summoners is that many of them are unappreciative of the current iteration's play style. Instead of realizing this isn't for me, I should try another job, the therapeutic method is to create threads and posts ad nauseam trashing someone's work of art, someone's creation.

So I should be happy with having no changes to my rotation when I get a job while other jobs get spells and skills that actually make a difference? Secondly, even artists are subject to criticism. If everyone just accepted what something is and ignored it, improvement or change would never happen.

[Brianmj]

So I should be happy with having no changes to my rotation when I get a job while other jobs get spells and skills that actually make a difference?

Yup. Summoner is just an Arcanist with Fester. For those of us that like the dot/pet play style, the current situation is fine. In your original post you mention Summoner lacks a "feel good" quality. This speaks more about your tastes than any problems the job may or may not have. An artist cannot please everyone. If what you have in front of you does nothing to wet your whistle, then it's up to you to move on to the next piece. I'm in the same situation with MNK and THM, they do nothing for me. But I don't create threads detailing how those jobs need to be reworked, I just don't level them. MNK and BLM mains would not appreciate it if I campaigned to have their jobs remade.

It's not my place to tell other people not to play a job dotdotdot

[Akiza]

Yup. Summoner is just an Arcanist with Fester. For those of us that like the dot/pet play style, the current situation is fine. In your original post you mention Summoner lacks a "feel good" quality. This speaks more about your tastes than any problems the job may or may not have. An artist cannot please everyone. If what you have in front of you does nothing to wet your whistle, then it's up to you to move on to the next piece. I'm in the same situation with MNK and THM, they do nothing for me. But I don't create threads detailing how those jobs need to be reworked, I just don't level them. MNK and BLM mains would not appreciate it if I campaigned to have their jobs remade.

It's not my place to tell other people not to play a job dotdotdot

Then play Scholar since they are the better of the DoT/Pet play style since they can DPS, buff and heal.
Which is the problem because why bring a Summoner to anything when Scholar completely dominates it and has unique skills optimal for DoT/Pet style of play while the Summoner is built for bursts.

[Natsuno]

Then play Scholar since they are the better of the DoT/Pet play style since they can DPS, buff and heal.
Which is the problem because why bring a Summoner to anything when Scholar completely dominates it and has unique skills optimal for DoT/Pet style of play while the Summoner is built for bursts.

Only, some of us don't want to be pigeonholed into healing.

You don't like the job. We get that. Everyone gets that. Some of us do like it, and we sure aren't going to play a role that we don't enjoy just because you want to wittle summoner numbers down to warrant an overhaul.

[Akiza]

Only, some of us don't want to be pigeonholed into healing
You don't like the job. We get that. Everyone gets that. Some of us do like it, and we sure aren't going to play a role that we don't enjoy just because you want to wittle summoner numbers down to warrant an overhaul.

The Summoner numbers have already wittled down to barely seeing any on the server to to warrant an overhaul and as a former Summoner main I should know. The Summoner has a lot of Technical issues an endgame and is worthless in group content. The way content is designed with little down time, massive amount of up time and adds needed to be bursts down quickly or a wipe negatively impacts Summoner because they are mediocre in areas of DPS that matters. There is no point in bringing a Summoner to a group when they are outclassed by a large margin an all areas of DPS by other jobs. Final Fantasy III and Final Fantasy Tactics perfected the class/job system as well as perfected the Summoner there was no reason for SE to deviate so much from the original concept of the Summoner. The Summoner in Tactics branched from the Elementalist which calls upon the spirits of nature to deal Earth, Fire, Water and Wind Elemental Damage. Also the Summoner in Final Fantasy III and Final Fantasy Tactics specialized in Massive AoE Bursts with the Summon dealing Massive AoE Bursts as well. The Black Mage specializes in Massive Single Target Bursts and the Summoner should specialize in Massive AoE Bursts that's how they are suppose to contrast each other.

The AoE Bursts iteration of the Summoner from Final Fantasy Tactics Advance better fits the way content is designed in this game then the DoT iteration.

[Ardan]

Snip.

If you're a former SMN main, why even bother continuing to post about SMN anymore? Stop making up facts to further your arguments. People still play the job and that's a fact. It's far from worthless in endgame. Is it optimal? No. You want worthless? Go back to WAR 2.0. That crap warranted the massive buffs it deserved in 2.1.

And again, stop comparing past iterations from turn-based RPGs. They do not translate well into online action RPGs where balance must be kept. This argument can be made to any job in any FF.

[Dyvid]

Yup. Summoner is just an Arcanist with Fester. For those of us that like the dot/pet play style, the current situation is fine. In your original post you mention Summoner lacks a "feel good" quality. This speaks more about your tastes than any problems the job may or may not have. An artist cannot please everyone. If what you have in front of you does nothing to wet your whistle, then it's up to you to move on to the next piece. I'm in the same situation with MNK and THM, they do nothing for me. But I don't create threads detailing how those jobs need to be reworked, I just don't level them. MNK and BLM mains would not appreciate it if I campaigned to have their jobs remade.

It's not my place to tell other people not to play a job dotdotdot

Well said.