Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[NyarukoW]

No. What you're doing is called harassment, and you should be immediately kicked from any group unlucky enough to be saddled with you.

LOL. Harassment for standing up for the new/newer players so they are not run roughshod over, under, and thru by people without patience. They actually appreciate what I do and I've had plenty of positive feed back in game to know that slowing down an unwanted speed run is both good and right for the party as whole. Other players are not there just be used and abused and taken advantage of, and you can wait for your replacement tank and/or healer and better pray you don't get me joined back in progress and to let you know I am reporting you for vote kick abuse. In any case if you have to wait the speed run is already shot and other players are not being abused by the speed runners like you. It is still a win for more sane and friendly playing environment.

[Ophie-Mio]

In any case they will be foolish to vote kick a healer or a tank and then wait. I make sure my runs don't wipe, go smoothly and not stressful

I've kicked healers and tanks before and believe me, they come within a reasonable time depending on which dungeon. Low roulette, no, anything high and above, you'll get a replacement soon enough. However, if you don't do your job intentionally (which means healing on healer, tanking on tank and dpsing on dps) you'll be kicked due to "difference of play style" and I'll keep kicking you if you come back because you're trolling.

Also, not wiping is rather difficult if you have a horde of enemies and you let your tank die. Though, because you've described a scenario that is so consciously and cautiously allowing someone to die, I don't expect you to understand any manner of actual reason. Also, smooth runs means no deaths or wipes. Smooth with deaths isn't smooth.

BTW I've successfully put my methods as describe into play to disrupt the speed runs when people object to the silent speed runner, and usually in those cases I get the 2 commendations every time. Obviously the speed runner is pissed but they got what they deserved.

Yes, your methods which include basically going afk, which is a kickable offense. Your methods also include MPK by knowingly letting your tank pull and knowing you aren't going to heal him. Save yourself the headache and either leave the dungeon and not afk and as with the tank, either kick him or leave. No need to be borderline sadistic and let them die.

[Mugiawara]

IMO, as a healer, I think the tank should consult with me or any healers about pulling large mobs, then
the DPS and see if we're all confident enough.
I use to NOT be able to, I did all I could, and people should be respectful to that. This happened in Bray HM.
Not everyone is as good as everyone else in this game. Will it really kill you people to have an extra 3 mins in a run, or an extra 10+ min
because you're on the floor wiping all day...

[NyarukoW]

..
...,not wiping is rather difficulty if you have a horde of enemies and you let your tank die.

Did I ever say it was easy? I have to balance heals and DPS. dance that cleric stance, to get it just right. And it is a skill I learned specifically to counter the speed runners.

..
Also, smooth runs means no deaths or wipes. Smooth with deaths isn't smooth.

The run was going to be a wipe, so not wiping makes is smoother already. 1 death of the silent speed runner is price to pay for a smooth run is fair price to pay I'd say.

....
our methods which include basically going afk..

Really now you are really grasping at straws. I never go AFK. BTW the method is not sadistic, letting the silent speed runner run roughshod over everyone is abusing everyone and someone has to stop the bully. Their death is not MPK, it is their own doing. He'd got the regen and medica2, and E4E and if he can't handle it then he should pull smaller because the silent speed runner did not communicate properly to start they reap what they've sown.

[Snugglebutt]

...in fact, I would argue you are more of a monster because at least a speed runner isn't trying to intentionally sabotage their group.

Actually a speed runner is putting a group at a much higher risk leading to a potential wipe, it does not matter if they intentionally planned to wipe the group or not, the consequences of their actions puts the group at a much higher risk. This is not to say I think people should go AFK to spite others but a speed runner should ask permission first in DF.

I have no problem with people speed running in general, especially when they use the better tool for it which is PF not DF however speed runners should get permission and agreement from the group in DF as common courtesy before they run off. No-one agreed to speed run content or skip cutscenes etc prior to starting a run in DF but in PF they do via your listed requirements. The default for DF should be normal pace+cutscenes, the normal for PF is whatever you want listed in the party finder.

So get peoples consent before speed run in DF, it takes you like half a second to ask if they okay with doing a speed run or ask if they mind skipping cutscenes to speed the run up...while the party members from across different worlds who ended up in that DF run should not have to ask you to not speed run it or ask you to allow them to watch cutscenes. So if intend to speed run in DF, when enter just say "Do you mind if we speed run?", simple, easy and quick to do while in PF you do not need to do so because you would of already informed people prior to them joining you that you are farming it or speed running it.

[Ophie-Mio]

Really now you are really grasping at straws. I never go AFK.

Quote:

As DPS you can withhold DPS and the speed run will come to screeching halt, it is not going to be much of speed run when there is only 1/2 the DPS or less

Saying that there is only 1 DPS or less means that you've gone AFk and at best, AFK auto-attack for one mob. Not grasping at straws, just calling out your harassing behavior for what it is.

[Ghishlain]

Oh man, where do I even begin, lol.

I can stop a speed run without wiping the party, here are some simple instructions;

The Point----


Your Head----

You missed the point, entirely. (not surprising given how much you love to Straw Man argue).

You're no better than the monsters to claim to be speed run enthusiasts are because of this wall of text:

As DPS you can withhold DPS and the speed run will come to screeching halt, it is not going to be much of speed run when there is only 1/2 the DPS or less
As tank you can just simply pull less. The idiot that pull mobs on their own, they touched it they bought it and they can die to it, I am not going to get aggro back from them, no thank you.
As a healer, this is the most challenging when you have a speed running tank. You have to time it just right as to when to cleric stance holy spam so the party is healed but the tank dies with mob. But with practice you can get this 99.9% of the time. Usually it goes something along the lines of E4E, regen, medica 2 and holy spam. Let the tank die while everyone else DPS down the mobs and everything is fine and dandy while you get to recharge mp.

You have developed strategies on how to most effectively hamper a speed run (even admitted that you can go and KILL your tank as a healer 99.9% of the time).

What if there's a new person in the group and 3 people want to speed run and you don't? Then what are you going to do? Plant your feet on the ground and go "NO!"

Guess what, that is grounds for Vote Kick.

You have now gone against the will of the party and how they want to play via "different playstyles". That is grounds for a Vote Kick.



(Disclaimer: I personally don't agree with S-E's stance on this, but I will use it to its full effect in this particular post scenario)

Here's a scenario for you:

Three players on voice chat, one tank, one DPS, one healer. The DPS is new, the tank and healer are veterans. They agree that a speedrun is okay and they've already given the new DPS a few pointers on how to handle the pulls / bosses.

You come along and join them. They run off. So, you stop and do nothing. Welp, you're getting booted now since you've now disagreed with their playstyle. They said nothing, did nothing, just did their thing, and you intentionally hampered them by planting your feet, crossing your arms, and saying "NO".

I already know how you're going to respond.

But that's such a rare and unique scenario!

Guess what, your premise that all silent speed runners are there to wipe the raid? It's not the case. You aren't psychic. You will never know exactly what the scenario is, and yes, for all we know, the new person in question is in voice chat with the tank and just didn't mention it. I know I've done something similar with my FC, where we take three, fill the slot with a PuG, and run off. No issues to be had, no deaths, nothing.

I make sure my runs don't wipe, go smoothly and not stressful, the newer players get the necesary instructions and I average at least 1 commendations every run.

Hey, you know what? I can ALSO make sure the run goes smoothly, we don't wipe, not stressful, the new players get the neccessary instructions, AND I can keep up with the group whether it's a speed run or a normal run. And I ALSO usually get one commendation every run (usually all three when I can pull off the SR while explaining the nuances of the dungeon to the new player).

You're not special because of what you do, you're just proving to be equally as monstrous as the people you're fighting against. (but hey, you don't really care about that, you just want to prove that you're right regardless of how badly you pose yourself)

Actually a speed runner is putting a group at a much higher risk leading to a potential wipe, it does not matter if they intentionally planned to wipe the group or not, the consequences of their actions puts the group at a much higher risk. This is not to say I think people should go AFK to spite others but a speed runner should ask permission first in DF.

I have no problem with people speed running in general, especially when they use the better tool for it which is PF not DF however speed runners should get permission and agreement from the group in DF as common courtesy before they run off. No-one agreed to speed run content or skip cutscenes etc prior to starting a run in DF but in PF they do via your listed requirements. The default for DF should be normal pace+cutscenes, the normal for PF is whatever you want listed in the party finder.

Get peoples consent before speed run in DF, it takes you like half a second to ask if they okay with doing a speed run or ask if they mind skipping cutscenes to speed the run up...while the party members from across different worlds who ended up in that DF run should not have to ask you to not speed run it or ask you to allow them to watch cutscenes. So if intend to speed run in DF, when enter just say "Do you mind if we speed run?", simple, easy and quick to do while in PF you do not need to do so because you would of already informed people prior to them joining you that you are farming it or speed running it.

Oh, I don't disagree with this point at all. I also feel it's important to get a majority vote (Specifically at least 3 people on board, with two being the tank + healer). What I have issue with from NyarukoW's holier than thou, "I'm going to wipe you out because you're speed running" attitude where it's no different from a speed runner running off and getting everyone killed. Different scenarios, same effect, and leads to the same problems. THAT is my issue.

You can't just fix one side of the debate without fixing the other side as well. It doesn't work. You need consensus (insert Legion voice here), and a level of respect and trust for your fellow party members. Not try to drag them through (or not through) the mud.

That's why I made this post earlier in the thread, because I feel both sides are too stubborn in their thought process.

Just for the record, I disagree with the OP vehemently. It doesn't mean the opposing side of the coin is right either, however.

Unfortunately, some people just don't understand that.

[NyarukoW]

Quote:
Saying that there is only 1 DPS or less means that you've gone AFk and at best, AFK auto-attack for one mob. Not grasping at straws, just calling out your harassing behavior for what it is.

It is not AFK to busy typing, "please slow down" and "stop cussing at me" or "I'm going to report you to the GM for harassment for wiping the party with pulls that are too big" when I am dead on the ground with everyone else because of the ill-advised pull. And if the pulled everything before all my cool downs are ready I can't even auto-attack. And I will only withold DPS when some one else has objected to the speed run, be it healer, dps or tank. I don't just disrupt speed run for giggles, only when another player does not want it or can not do the speed run so it will be a 2-2 split at least.

...even admitted that you can go and KILL your tank as a healer 99.9% of the time).
...

The role of the healer is to keep the party alive. If the speed run requires a sacrifice then it will be the speed runner. I don't kill tanks 99.9% of the time, but I have a method that can do that 99.9% of the when it is needed to stop the silent speed running tank.

...
.Three players on voice chat, one tank, one DPS, one healer. The DPS is new, the tank and healer are veterans. They agree that a speedrun is okay and they've already given the new DPS a few pointers on how to handle the pulls / bosses....

If they don't talk to me and I am DPS and go off to the races, good luck to them. I'll DPS when I feel like it or DPS at whatever speed I like. I am not there to make the run impossible, I want to run the stuff and get it done too. They are in agreement already, I can see that, why would I need to make trouble, this when I can relax and take it at leisurely pace and be carefree DPS. I am happy to opportunistic and take advantage of their efforts. I actually prefer this scenario the best, because I don't need to worry about jack, but you can't expect me to put out my best DPS that I'd use for T12 or something because I am just my own loose cannon and they got everything covered anyways, and I am NOT obligated to help them get the world record speed run time.

...
You're not special because of what you do, you're just proving to be equally as monstrous as the people you're fighting against
....

Always with the name calling. In any case I've never said I was special, I am just providing useful tips for people to slow down a speed run that was just suddenly foisted upon them. It is not monstrous to help people not get bullied by the speed runners.

[DoctorPepper]

I can stop a speed run without wiping the party, here are some simple instructions;

This is harassment and I would kick you for using any of those methods in a party I was in. Speed run or not, this behavior is childish and unacceptable. You should go out of your way to be the bigger person, not bring yourself down to the same level as the people you're trying to stop.

I don't condone nor condemn speed runs but this is overboard in my opinion. They gave us vote kick for a reason, use that as your tool to get rid of unwanted speed runners, if it doesn't work then you're obviously in the minority for that party and shouldn't be trying to force your ideals on other people. You should try to practice what you preach because this just proves you're just as bad as any of the people forcing speed runs.

[MStowastiqVahlshdeh]

No, I am not psychic. No, I don't assume that because you're poorly geared that you are new. No, the message at the beginning does not tell me that there are multiple new people.

Yes, you should have responded when I asked in the beginning who's new.

If you do not tell me you're new; expect a speed run and understand that I expect you to understand the dungeon.

Now, tell me that you're new and I will ALWAYS pull slowly and I'll make sure you don't get lost.

I agree and I always tell folks I'm new and I make sure they know.