Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[NyarukoW]

... I would argue you are more of a monster because at least a speed runner isn't trying to intentionally sabotage their group).
...

The speed runner is intentionally trying to wipe everyone just to so they can chance it and get lucky and get their way. By slowing down the speed run so the party does not wipe is not being a monster even if the corpse of the silent speed runner is the necessary sacrifice.

...
We're all human beings. We CANNOT account for every single possible variable that MAY occur ....
...

But the better and more experienced player can account for more of them, and they can start by not demanding a response from the new/newer player knowing full well they may not even get a response and then wipe the party by speedrunning. And to top it off they want to impose this regime and cry about it here on the forums bashing the new/newer players when they have no ground to stand on for setting a landmine for themselves.

And it is not about lowest common denominator to be smarter and more prepared and knowing ahead of time to avoid the problems you can prevent. Don't assume to to speed run on the DF by default then you won't be surpised and get mad by wipes from speed runs. This is about having reasonable expectation and workable methods for communication.

Those of us who are the more experienced player, the more "pro" player should be able to adjust and accommodate. It is like this:
"... He's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector..." - Lt. James Gordon
Even if it is thankless or the new/newer players are clueless about it, it is still up to us who know better to be able to do better, and coming here crying about what the other (new/newer obviously does not have the knowldege) players who do not know how to do what you want, achieves what exactly? Blaming them pushing the responsibility on to them doesn't solve any problems either.

[Cirgellon]

I'm a noob and I haven't told anyone that I was new to dungeons. There has never been a problem. I haven't been in a group that has wiped yet.

Last night I played with a tank in a dungeon that I had never done and he labeled all mobs with numbers. Maybe you should just start doing this? I haven't seen any other mechanics that aren't obvious, like get out of the way whenever the ground lights up under you.

[NyarukoW]

I'm a noob and I haven't told anyone that I was new to dungeons. There has never been a problem. I haven't been in a group that has wiped yet.

Last night I played with a tank in a dungeon that I had never done and he labeled all mobs with numbers. Maybe you should just start doing this? I haven't seen any other mechanics that aren't obvious, like get out of the way whenever the ground lights up under you.

Nothing wrong with being a noob. Actually the fact that you read stuff here already put you many steps ahead. In any case the speed running problem and forcing people skip cutscenes usually do not start until you get to level 50. I hope you don't run into too many of those trouble makers and have a pleasant experience overall.

[Ghishlain]

~ Snip ~

I'm feeling chatty, so let's continue this conversation. The worst assumption you can make:

....can not stop the silent speed runner from running off and aggro-ing everything and wiping everyone ...

The speed runner is intentionally trying to wipe everyone just to so they can chance it and get lucky and get their way.

... then wipe the party by speedrunning.

You are now assuming that all Speed Runners are INTENTIONALLY ATTEMPTING TO WIPE THE PARTY. You have made this very clear but saying it three times in two responses to my wall of text.

This is a false assumption. Speed runners are taking a calculated risk to increase the speed they can complete the dungeon. If they were attempting to "WIPE THE PARTY" as you so liberally claim, they wouldn't bother to speed run at all because it would mean they would be going slower.

However, you have made your stance abundantly clear

... that price has to be paid with the corpse of the silent speed runner ...

... the corpse of the silent speed runner is the necessary sacrifice.

Two quotes in two responses to me, let alone any additional quotes about this sentiment earlier in this thread. You will INTENTIONALLY wipe your group to stop a speed run.

...good job.

Like how I can't stop speed runners from being abusive to [potentially new] players if a speed run fails (which I agree is horribly wrong), I also can't stop you from wiping your group to stop said speed run either.

In both cases, the people responsible for these abuses are monsters.

Think about that.

[KittytheSheGeek]

I can see both sides of the argument. It is appreciated when a new person informs the party/raid that they are new, that way we can make sure the new person knows the mechanics beforehand. Also I like to make sure that newbies have the opportunity to watch cutscenes and enjoy the story as we go, instead of being yelled at to watch it in their inn room.

However, we should also never assume a speed run unless agreed upon before starting. So really I'm not really on either side of the discussion, but I will say that communication is important regardless.

[AlexionSkylark]

OK... this discussion can be summed up to the following: Speedrunning is NOT how dungeons are designed to be ran like. it's an EXPLOIT. It's not by chance that you have level syncs on content.

Also... Not EVERYBODY can speedrun. However, EVERYBODY can runa dungeon normally.

So... Speedrun should NEVER be the default. NEVER.
Nobody should EVER be forced to speedrun a dungeon. EVEN if he's outvoted 3 to 1. Simply because IT'S NOT HOW THE GAME IS MEANT TO BE PLAYED.

[NyarukoW]

... let alone any additional quotes about this sentiment earlier in this thread. You will INTENTIONALLY wipe your group to stop a speed run.
....

I can stop a speed run without wiping the party, here are some simple instructions;

As DPS you can withhold DPS and the speed run will come to screeching halt, it is not going to be much of speed run when there is only 1/2 the DPS or less
As tank you can just simply pull less. The idiot that pull mobs on their own, they touched it they bought it and they can die to it, I am not going to get aggro back from them, no thank you.
As a healer, this is the most challenging when you have a speed running tank. You have to time it just right as to when to cleric stance holy spam so the party is healed but the tank dies with mob. But with practice you can get this 99.9% of the time. Usually it goes something along the lines of E4E, regen, medica 2 and holy spam. Let the tank die while everyone else DPS down the mobs and everything is fine and dandy while you get to recharge mp.

I don't need to wipe the party to stop the speed run, I just need to let the silent speed runner kill themselves and offer their own corpse as sacrifice. Their death will buy the necessary wake up call to slow down and pay attention to how the group operates and communicate. If the their method of communication is verbal harassment, I will report them to the GMs and hopefully they get a penalty and learn not to pull everything without discussion.

All it takes to avoid all this is nicely asking, "can we try a speed run?" at the start and wait for everyone to say yes and then go. If the speed runner is too rude and impatient to do that, they will learn what they get from me the hard way. What you don't ask is "I am going to speed run if no one objects" because if there is any communication failure it will be too late. Not to mention that is really bullying the rest of the group and really obnoxious and irresponsible and placing the responsibility on other players to be able to see, understand, and respond in time.

[Ophie-Mio]

I can stop a speed run without wiping the party, here are some simple instructions;

As DPS you can withhold DPS and the speed run will come to screeching halt, it is not going to be much of speed run when there is only 1/2 the DPS or less
As tank you can just simply pull less. The idiot that pull mobs on their own, they touched it they bought it and they can die to it, I am not going to get aggro back from them, no thank you.
As a healer, this is the most challenging when you have a speed running tank. You have to time it just right as to when to holy spam so the party is healed but the tank dies with mob. But with practice you can get this 99.9% of the time. Usually it goes something along the lines of E4E, regen, medica 2 and holy spam. Let the tank die while everyone else DPS down the mobs and everything is fine and dandy while you get to recharge mp.

I don't need to wipe the party to stop the speed run, I just need to let the silent speed runner kill themselves and offer their own corpse as sacrifice. Their death will buy the necessary wake up call to slow down and pay attention to how the group operates.

This is horrible. And you deserve an automatic kick every time you're allowed in DF.

[NyarukoW]

This is horrible. And you deserve an automatic kick every time you're allowed in DF.

Really? That is called vote kick abuse. I report those too. In any case they will be foolish to vote kick a healer or a tank and then wait. I make sure my runs don't wipe, go smoothly and not stressful, the newer players get the necesary instructions and I average at least 1 commendations every run, regardless of whether I tank, heal, or DPS. The speed runner that bothered to ask the right question nicely usually get my full cooperation and I get commendations from them too. The speed runner should have the good sense to know they need to communicate correctly and effectively. The OP's method is clearly flawed and then uses it as an excuse to bash on new/newer players.

BTW I've successfully put my methods as describe into play to disrupt the speed runs when people object to the silent speed runner, and usually in those cases I get the 2 commendations every time. Obviously the speed runner is pissed but they got what they deserved.

...
You are now assuming that all Speed Runners are INTENTIONALLY ATTEMPTING TO WIPE THE PARTY. ....

BTW they do not need to be "intentional", they just do it negligently and obliviously. They do not know the limits of the group and did not allow for enough margin of error. Speed running is riding a that hairy edge and you should only speed run when everyone has agreed to do so unanimously.

[Zaft]

Really? That is called vote kick abuse.

No. What you're doing is called harassment, and you should be immediately kicked from any group unlucky enough to be saddled with you.