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  1. #101
    Player
    RobinRethiel's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    285
    Character
    Robin Avrelivs
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Welsper59 View Post
    Your reference to chocobo racing is wrong btw. Why you would be burning MGP is most likely self-inflicted. Being efficient about your time and MGP usage is important if your goal is to make more. The only expense 99% of the player base should care for with racing is the breeding birds, of which they're pretty damn cheap and you only really need one. You're intended to progress your birds pedigree to build up to great stats and abilities (unless you luck out early on). Feeds really only need g1, which you can buy for 1500 gil.
    You are wrong, obviously. If you are breeding a chocobo with a lot of 1 Star parent stats, it will become more and more difficult to compensate this later and you need even more luck (and it is quite possible, that you will never get one, that will do it). It will also get very difficult = more time consuming, to level up a bad chocobo.

    You answer is revolving way too much around yourself and not the system itself. That's the exact wrong way to create a smoothly working system.

    I don't waste any MGP into food by the way. I also don't waste MGP into gold packages. Nonetheless: such RNG things are a MASSIV MGP sink.


    You know: I don't need ANY of the rewards in Gold Saucer. I don't like the look of the Gambler Set, I don't like Fenrir as a mount, I couldn't care less about those expensive cards (and by the way got most of my cards out of TT games and dungeons). I don't want to look like a sex symbol, so I don't go for the bunny outfit and the minions are pretty cheap, their prizes are okay, just like the city garments.

    It's not about me. It's about the system and that it maybe is not killing FF14, but hurting it. And I don't like that. I don't want, that FF14 is getting hurt. I want, that it is getting better for everyone. That it is getting the best MMO out there, not another RNG/Grind nightmare, like so many others. We got DOZENS of such shitty games full with RNG and grind. We don't need another copy of that.

    Careful, I mentioned work to this person in a thread they started about MGP, and was threatened by them that they would report me for insulting them.
    While I don't agree with the post of Welsper59, I don't see an insult in there. I think, he/she is wrong, but is trying to explain his/her point of view. That's different to what you did.

    @ Nutz
    It is not getting better at the moment, not much.

    The best grinding you can do is gaining 90 MGP per ~40s Triple Trial. Maybe now and then some 2-3 star cards, making it 95 MGP in average. That's, let be generous: 9k GMP in an hour with 90 TT games, which are absolutely repetitive and hard to endure for a sane mind.
    (1)
    Last edited by RobinRethiel; 03-11-2015 at 07:29 AM.

  2. #102
    Player
    Nutz's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    1,140
    Character
    Monkey Nutz
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    People certainly are upset by this on both sides. I looked at the prizes compared to the very meager amounts of MGP that you can generate (at least initially) and thought that I simply must be missing something because many activities actually drained MGP rather than granting it. GATES don't seem very good. In the grand scheme of things I suppose the entry fee and reward are both small, but I failed 2 and won 1, coming out very slightly ahead on MGP there. TT must get better once you have a decent stockpile of cards. Where I'm at I can regularly win a tiny amount of MGP.

    From the perspective of grinding it looks like people have found efficient ways of doing it, but that's pretty much always boring and unsatisfying (to me). The number of hours required (or immense luck through weekly lottery) to get a vanity mount (even the 'cheap' adamantoise) makes me want to avoid the content entirely. Obviously it hasn't had this effect on other people, but for me (and I would think many) the rewards are way too far off on the horizon to consider dedicating so much time to the activities, especially since it's just vanity items. It would be more enticing if you could do some of the activities casually and get rewards in the foreseeable future. The way it's set up you can get rewards through intense grinding, or maybe several months from now by playing casually.
    (1)

  3. #103
    Player
    MomomiMomi's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
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    2,527
    Character
    Momomi Momi
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RobinRethiel View Post
    Gold Saucer is not such a place to have fun. It's fun for a few days, because it is new.
    Not fun for you. I really enjoy chocobo racing, and no, it's not the MGP burning you're trying to make it out to be. Learn to accept 1 stars to cut down on your costs. They really don't matter. Whether it's 1, 2, or 3 stars, the ideal goal is to stamp them out eventually anyway. So it doesn't matter that you have a bunch of 1 stars.

    Introduce a few 4 stars into your birds over time. Then breed your own chocobos with each other. Congratulations, your costs are gone.
    (2)

  4. #104
    Player
    DarkDedede's Avatar
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    Nov 2013
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    646
    Character
    Red Cork
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Welsper59 View Post
    Criticisms are welcome, but they do have their own vision in mind. We (collectively) are not their boss, so we don't call the shots and have the final say. Please don't become the idiot consumer that believes otherwise, just because you buy a product of theirs... I'd like to have more faith in you lol.
    Don't worry about that. I've worked retail long enough to know exactly the kind of person that you are referring to.

    However, I'm not so complacent as to give in to tacit consent. I'm not going to act as if they are doing us a favor by making us this game. That variety of self serving hubris was the downfall of the team of the first generation of this game. I'd rather not see that happen again. I also don't believe that all feedback needs to be in the form of a lengthy dissertation. I'd rather spend my time playing the parts of the game that I do enjoy.

    Sure, I'd be interested in other parts, once I find the incentive. Until then, yes, "it's not for me." Where the issue lies is if one of their design choices end up being "not" for enough of their intended audience. If something they've developed doesn't benefit enough people to justify the invested resources, then they need to modify and improve it until more people can actually enjoy it. I'm sure they have their methods to gather metrics so they don't need their players to draw them a detailed schematic of where and how to fix the issue. They're the designers. They are the ones that need to come up the solution. All we can legally do is point out issues and possibly give suggestions. Anything past that opens up an entirely different batch of issues.

    In any case, I'm sure they're keep making improvements so that the GS appeals to a broader audience. Until then, we can point out the issues in the hopes that others agree with us (in some form or fashion), and have some lengthy discussions along the way (always a fun time).
    (2)
    "Fun comes first. If it isn't fun, you're doing it wrong." -Naoki Yoshida

  5. #105
    Player
    RobinRethiel's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    285
    Character
    Robin Avrelivs
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by MomomiMomi View Post
    Not fun for you. I really enjoy chocobo racing, and no, it's not the MGP burning you're trying to make it out to be. Learn to accept 1 stars to cut down on your costs. They really don't matter. Whether it's 1, 2, or 3 stars, the ideal goal is to stamp them out eventually anyway. So it doesn't matter that you have a bunch of 1 stars.

    Introduce a few 4 stars into your birds over time. Then breed your own chocobos with each other. Congratulations, your costs are gone.
    Yeah, I know, it is all about you and no one else. So why even post here? Do you fear, that others beside you may have fun, too?

    And your "infos" are completly worthless, because you CAN'T "introduce" some 4 stars into a chocobo breed, if you don't GET any 4 stars or they simply don't inherite. THAT is the whole point. When you buy 10 chocobos and very single one of them got 8 of the 10 stats on 1 star and an absolut worthless skill, it will be always absolut pointless to breed it. What you are writing got nothing to do with the situation in the game. You only see yourself and yeah, you might be lucky, good for you, does not help all the others.
    (1)

  6. #106
    Player
    MomomiMomi's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
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    Momomi Momi
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    Behemoth
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    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RobinRethiel View Post
    ...
    Sorry, but nobody can make you have fun. Don't find it fun? Don't do it. You said it's not fun. I suggest you move on, then. I'm not saying this as some selfish remark. It's an honest suggestion for your benefit. I don't do things I don't find fun, and I'm honestly amazed that people do things they don't find fun themselves.

    And as I said, it doesn't matter how many 1 star stats you have. 8 1 star stats is fine. I got those too. Use it anyway, which is what I did. You'll eventually get something better. Stop wasting your MGP and throwing them away. All you're doing is deciding to take the worst approach to it and then complaining about it.
    (2)
    Last edited by MomomiMomi; 03-11-2015 at 10:13 AM.

  7. #107
    Player
    Beeraga's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    119
    Character
    Beeraga Z'destroyer
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    A grind is only a grind if you make it so.
    (3)

  8. #108
    Player
    MomomiMomi's Avatar
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    Momomi Momi
    World
    Behemoth
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    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Beeraga View Post
    A grind is only a grind if you make it so.
    Sums up how I feel about GS. People call it a grind, but at no point have I felt it was a grind. I haven't touched Indolent Imperial beyond getting his cards (minus Gaius), for example, because that'd just be a boring, mindless grind. I'll eventually get the MGP I need doing the things I enjoy.
    (3)

  9. #109
    Player
    RobinRethiel's Avatar
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    Robin Avrelivs
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    Phoenix
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    Conjurer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by MomomiMomi View Post
    Sorry, but nobody can make you have fun. Don't find it fun? Don't do it. You said it's not fun. I suggest you move on, then. I'm not saying this as some selfish remark. It's an honest suggestion for your benefit. I don't do things I don't find fun, and I'm honestly amazed that people do things they don't find fun themselves.

    And as I said, it doesn't matter how many 1 star stats you have. 8 1 star stats is fine. I got those too. Use it anyway, which is what I did. You'll eventually get something better. Stop wasting your MGP and throwing them away. All you're doing is deciding to take the worst approach to it and then complaining about it.
    All you do is ignoring simply facts to create a fake point for defending your lost position. Just stop lying to other players. It's one thing, when you are lying to yourself, but here it becomes toxic. Others may read this and may believe this nonsense you are writing here, finding themselves in a dead corner at the end.

    A bad star rating means, that you got a disastrous low stat from the start and the power of food is also reduced. It will also always be part of the lottery of breeding and the more bad star ratings the parents of a breeding chocobo got, the more luck you need in the breeding process. Even if the other chcocobo is an All-Star-One, which would be pretty much impossible luck, ALL the bad star rating of the "cripple" chocobo may inherited, totally crushing this one great luck someone got with the bought chocobo.

    It's a colossal cheek toward everyone who reads your post and does not know the whole breeding process yet, what you are trying to do here.

    A grind is only a grind if you make it so.
    Can you explain this sentence? It does not make any sense for itself.
    (0)

  10. #110
    Player
    Welsper59's Avatar
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    Mar 2012
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    2,427
    Character
    Eros Maxima
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDedede View Post
    Don't worry about that. I've worked retail long enough to know exactly the kind of person that you are referring to.

    However, I'm not so complacent as to give in to tacit consent. I'm not going to act as if they are doing us a favor by making us this game. That variety of self serving hubris was the downfall of the team of the first generation of this game. I'd rather not see that happen again. I also don't believe that all feedback needs to be in the form of a lengthy dissertation. I'd rather spend my time playing the parts of the game that I do enjoy.

    Sure, I'd be interested in other parts, once I find the incentive. Until then, yes, "it's not for me." Where the issue lies is if one of their design choices end up being "not" for enough of their intended audience. If something they've developed doesn't benefit enough people to justify the invested resources, then they need to modify and improve it until more people can actually enjoy it. I'm sure they have their methods to gather metrics so they don't need their players to draw them a detailed schematic of where and how to fix the issue. They're the designers. They are the ones that need to come up the solution. All we can legally do is point out issues and possibly give suggestions. Anything past that opens up an entirely different batch of issues.

    In any case, I'm sure they're keep making improvements so that the GS appeals to a broader audience. Until then, we can point out the issues in the hopes that others agree with us (in some form or fashion), and have some lengthy discussions along the way (always a fun time).
    Yes, I agree with the things you've stated here. Namely the part about a given situation where content is not performing as well as intended. In those cases, yeah, they really should look to remedy it. The Gold Saucer is, I'm 99% certain, not one of those cases. Everything about the place is "for fun", aka optional, assuming what it is IS fun for you to begin with. Many people actually enjoy TT. Many actually enjoy Chocobo Racing. If they don't do it 24/7, it doesn't mean that no one is interested. There's a lot to do in this game, so it's best to spread the love lol. The Gold Saucer is absolutely perfect (well almost perfect) for me in particular, because I miss the old school grind. As I stated in an earlier reply, I don't care about gear, as I've played the gear game for over a decade, so I'm kinda burnt out on it. All this self-achievement stuff in the form of nostalgia, gambling, and games... ooh I LOVE IT! That's just me however.

    I dare say that an overwhelming majority agree with it being a marvelous addition, despite frustrations involving Typhon (LOL!). I can see problems where they are, and I can sympathize with most problems people face (even if they are problems with the player, and not the system/design), but it is what it is right now. Voice concerns, it's just that people need to understand that their views may not be "right" with the developers... nor players, in many cases lol. Not saying you're one of those cases, mind you.

    I still say that people stating opinions that "it's not fun" then bitching about how it's impossible to do something, despite evidence saying otherwise, as being nothing but destructive reactions. Unfortunately, the grand majority of these people with problems involving GS do fall in line with that. They either don't realize that it's possible for things to not be intended for them, don't understand how the genre works, or they just completely ignore legitimate counter arguments about the things they find to be a problem (e.g. prizes costing too much, takes too long to make MGP, etc). If the Gold Saucer not being for them in its current state is enough reason to not enjoy themselves in the game, as small of a part as it is, then they need to do the smart/mature/adult thing and stop torturing themselves with something they hate. They can always come back whenever they want, so it's not like anyone is saying to never play again... which is, for whatever reason, how some people take the idea of being smart about their decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinRethiel View Post
    Can you explain this sentence? It does not make any sense for itself.
    It just basically means a grind is perspective, which it generally is due to a negative connotation behind the term. If you are doing something you don't enjoy, for whatever odd reason it may be, then you're making it into a grind. If you take a different approach to it, you may enjoy it better (e.g. doing other things and spending minimal time on it when you feel like it), etc etc.
    (1)
    Last edited by Welsper59; 03-11-2015 at 11:04 AM.

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