MGP too much of a grind

[CodeCass]

Ever heard of D&D?

As a DM irl, I can honestly say I've never thought of my dice as RNG.......UNTIL NOW! It really is the beginning of RNG! Haha, I'm going to start calling my d20s RNGod now.

[Welsper59]

Not all grinds are created equal. I prefer my grind with a dash of variety added to it.

Some grinds, even in this game, are just designed better than others (i.e. more engaging). In my opinion, the current GS grind (which I cannot see lasting too far past the next update) is not one of them.

THIS is a good argument. It's very true, not all grinds are designed equally. What needs to be understood though is that not all of the things available in the game are going to be accessible to you. For example, if you really don't have the drive to raid, you're probably never going to get Coil loot. If I said that the design for gear acquisition was complete shit because of that, what would you say? Would your reply have something to do with (or be a result of) the design of how an MMORPG works? If so, that's exactly how the general grind and reward structure works as well. Modern gamers are WAY too used to the idea that everything in a game must be designed for them and only them. That if a single aspect of a game is "bad" to this one person, it is a failed design choice. The way they designed the reward system is not wrong, nor is it bad. It's the name of the game.

Can they make it too long for any of us individually? Sure, of course... doesn't mean that it's bad though. When you look at an MMORPG and judge things to be good or bad (particularly the grind aspect), you can't just look at a single thing about it and determine that. In less than two weeks, people have amassed over 300-400k+ MGP... TWO WEEKS. I've only been doing MGP grinding for around a quarter of my time on the game, and I still have more than 200k acquired (all spent on misc stuff, mainly gold packs). That means in a little over a month or two, if they really wanted it, they'd get the prestigious Fenrir mount or Cloud card. Personal achievements that serve no purpose but to flaunt... but really, how often do personal achievements NOT result in that. At the rate I'm going, that'd mean I'd make 1mil in around 2.5 months. Is that too long for an MMORPG? If you think so, not sure why you'd think an MMORPG is not designed to cater as a second life... since you know, that's kind of what the point of it is as a form of entertainment.

As a DM irl, I can honestly say I've never thought of my dice as RNG.......UNTIL NOW! It really is the beginning of RNG! Haha, I'm going to start calling my d20s RNGod now.

If you rage at RNG here, you may learn a new hate for the die lol. I know I did.

[MomomiMomi]

It's brutal grinding alone to just do the Chocobo Race, because 50-90% of breeding chocobos you buy are disabled. Wasted 20k MGP today alone on 6 crippled chocobos with 5-8 1-star stats.

Seems to me you're just doing it to yourself. If you're going to be so selective of what chocobo you choose to use, yes, you're going to waste a lot of MGP. That's your choice, though.

Tip: having 1 star stats isn't a problem. You can weed them out later.

[DarkDedede]

stuff...

Not sure if you're referring to "you" as in me specifically, or just to everyone in general. My comment was more focused on the fact that no matter how long or drawn out a grind is, the grind itself should be as entertaining and rewarding as is achieving the ultimate goal (please refer to the quote in my sig).

As an example, one of my personal favorite grinds is collecting primal weapons. Do I get one every fight? No I don't. Do think I deserve every piece of loot that drops? No I don't. I feel that is a fun way to pass the time, and there are variety of ways to go about it. I can go as different jobs, play different roles, and it's entertaining. There are also consolation rewards to these fights as well. Even if I don't get the prize I want, there's a chance to get bonus tomes or commendations from the fight. If I get tired of doing that grind, I can move on to another grind I find equally as entertaining (FATEs, crafting, desynth, raids, etc).

The issue with the GS is that I just don't find it fun. In my personal experience, "modern gamers" are way too used to accepting the developers design choices "as is." I'm pretty sure that this forum was made available for feedback of all kinds. People wouldn't bring up these issues if they didn't care about the game. Not everyone is as completely selfish as you imply. The Golden Saucer should be a fun and exciting place for any and all types of interests, whether you want to spend all your time there or just a short visit. You should be able to just as easily "lose your shirt" as you could "win it big." In the current state, they might as well change the name of the Gambler's Outfit to "Grinder's Outfit," since that name would be much more appropriate description of how anyone would be able to afford it.

[MomomiMomi]

You should be able to just as easily "lose your shirt" as you could "win it big."

Seems you want Gold Saucer to be a place where you can gamble. I think it's safe to say that they purposely designed it to not be that, and I don't think they have any intention of making it so.

They wanted to make it a place where you can have fun, without any major risk of losing. You may not find that fun, and so Gold Saucer may just not be for you. If you're not finding it fun, then just don't participate. If you still want the items, just participate in the mini cactpot and you'll eventually get a good amount of items with very little grind.

[Welsper59]

Not sure if you're referring to "you" as in me specifically, or just to everyone in general. My comment was more focused on the fact that no matter how long or drawn out a grind is, the grind itself should be as entertaining and rewarding as is achieving the ultimate goal (please refer to the quote in my sig).

As an example, one of my personal favorite grinds is collecting primal weapons. Do I get one every fight? No I don't. Do think I deserve every piece of loot that drops? No I don't. I feel that is a fun way to pass the time, and there are variety of ways to go about it. I can go as different jobs, play different roles, and it's entertaining. There are also consolation rewards to these fights as well. Even if I don't get the prize I want, there's a chance to get bonus tomes or commendations from the fight. If I get tired of doing that grind, I can move on to another grind I find equally as entertaining (FATEs, crafting, desynth, raids, etc).

The issue with the GS is that I just don't find it fun. In my personal experience, "modern gamers" are way too used to accepting the developers design choices "as is." I'm pretty sure that this forum was made available for feedback of all kinds. People wouldn't bring up these issues if they didn't care about the game. Not everyone is as completely selfish as you imply. The Golden Saucer should be a fun and exciting place for any and all types of interests, whether you want to spend all your time there or just a short visit. You should be able to just as easily "lose your shirt" as you could "win it big." In the current state, they might as well change the name of the Gambler's Outfit to "Grinder's Outfit," since that name would be much more appropriate description of how anyone would be able to afford it.

Sorry, the "you" was broadly implied, not entirely aimed at you specifically lol. I don't think anyone is arguing that it should be fun for everyone. Realistically though, "should" does not mean "will" lol. Fun is subjective in every means to achieve that feeling. The Gold Saucer is not intended to take away from everything else in the game as, if that were the case, there'd be no need for any other form of content. It's there to be a filler (a long term addition). While I get your joke, your example of the Gambler's equipment rename doesn't sit well with me lol, simply because it's not about the Gold Saucer at all, so much as it is a reference to Setzer (who is a Gambler job type).

Another thing though is that, while you are justified to wish the Gold Saucer was done differently, it's also important to remember that it's perfectly fine for people like me. Maybe I've just been playing the genre too long, and am very familiar with how it works, but the grind is A-OK with me. Heck, the old Atma grind was 100% all right by me. I look at an MMORPG and I understand that such things will exist. I understand that not everything in it is going to be fun for me (like anything else in life). There will NEVER EVER be content that someone will always find fun, no matter how often you were to do it. Unlike instances, the gold saucer events do not have breaks or lengthy queues/lockouts to force such a break. You're going to get bored far faster as a result. No one, in the history of mankind, has ever created something that every single human being finds "fun" regardless of how often they do it. It's fine that people don't like something, but it's not fine to make the claim that it is bad and needs to change because of that. That's the thing that I was getting at. I don't do instances very much, in fact, I kinda dislike doing them (I've done a lot of CT/ST, but rarely even touched a roulette... in fact, I've not even done Copperbell HM yet). Do I think they're bad just because I don't care for it? Of course not. I don't even really care for tome gear LOL.

Just like you, my idea of fun is doing whatever I enjoy doing, even if it's just making gil or grinding the hell out of MGP/cards. But I don't look badly upon content I don't care for because: it's not designed for me. If this weren't an MMORPG, specific criticisms about fun are far more justified. It is an MMORPG though, and so developers have more than just you in mind when they think "fun" (again, subjective term). The criticism of "as is" is really ignorant in most cases though. Developers will create a game as they see fit to their design and instruction, as it is with everything that ever existed. Criticisms are welcome, but they do have their own vision in mind. We (collectively) are not their boss, so we don't call the shots and have the final say. Please don't become the idiot consumer that believes otherwise, just because you buy a product of theirs... I'd like to have more faith in you lol.

Criticism is great, but it requires an understanding to critique. It requires actual detailed explanations to help guide something you find problematic towards a point that won't completely destroy it. I mean sheesh, some people even indirectly complained about the fast queue times for racing, just because they added AI to fill missing player slots to reduce queue... WTF!? LOL. Just saying "it's not fun" does no one any good. It simply solidifies a reply in saying "it's just not for you" to be fitting. If it's related to MGP yield, provide a solution that won't involve people like me getting everything in a few weeks. If it's related to the individual games, provide feedback about what it is you have a problem with (core mechanics will NOT change in current renditions simply because they can't). If it's the prize costs, then again, provide a solution that won't involve people like me getting everything in a few weeks. When you provide feedback, you have to take into consideration what the goal is. It's no different than critiquing someones essay. Most people are HORRIBLE at providing feedback, but there might be that diamond in the rough that knows exactly what consequences their feedback provides but explains why it's worth doing.

[RobinRethiel]

Seems you want Gold Saucer to be a place where you can gamble. I think it's safe to say that they purposely designed it to not be that, and I don't think they have any intention of making it so.

They wanted to make it a place where you can have fun, without any major risk of losing. You may not find that fun, and so Gold Saucer may just not be for you. If you're not finding it fun, then just don't participate. If you still want the items, just participate in the mini cactpot and you'll eventually get a good amount of items with very little grind.

Gold Saucer is not such a place to have fun. It's fun for a few days, because it is new. Then it becomes repetitive and since long-term goals are only able to reach with a massive grind, which is no fun at all, because chocobo racing is actually burning MGP and Triple Triad against the same person over and over again is dumbing-down, people just let it go.

Items with mini cactpot? Only if you are lucky, that's the point. Yeah, some already got 50k MGP by it. Others not even 10k and you don't get much for 10k.

And no major risk of losing? Gold and silver packs for the rare cards? Chocobo breeding licenses? You can waste there hundredthousands of MGP and can have NOTHING at the end. And of course this is an immense loss inside this game. You can easily translate the MGP grind to a gil grind. In the time you make 10k MGP you could also generate 1M gil or more. And then you buy four gold packs with these 1M gil aaaaaand it's gone!

It's a MASSIVE loss.

go for cloud + nanamo card if you dont want to risk to lose mgp by buying card packs

That's like telling a new player, who wants to collect the tank and healer Shiva weapons and by bad luck is getting no single one of them, that he should just grind all the nexus weapons. And I got over 60 cards, but I don't discuss this because of me, but because of hundredthousand other players.

They should really give people like you something to grind. Make it a big, glowing sign over your head, telling everyone "I'm the uberpro" for 10M MGP. No problem with that. Just give the normal people also something to do. Else they will just stop caring about Gold Saucer - and about FF14 in total, because the RNG and grind is annoying for many, many players. And you and your grinding friends, no matter how hard and often you play, you are just a single player, like them.

Square wants to make money with this and if they got the heart and soul of game developers, also want the people to have fun. So telling them, that many people don't have fun because of this and that... it's just about helping them, if they want to make money or people happy.

It's very easy to satisfy grinders. Just put something completely useless but unique into the game they can go for. But when Square starts to serve only the grinders, they will snub all others.

[ServerCollaps]

stuff

go for cloud + nanamo card if you dont want to risk to lose mgp by buying card packs

[Welsper59]

Gold Saucer is not such a place to have fun. It's fun for a few days, because it is new. Then it becomes repetitive and since long-term goals are only able to reach with a massive grind, which is no fun at all, because chocobo racing is actually burning MGP and Triple Triad against the same person over and over again is dumbing-down, people just let it go.

Items with mini cactpot? Only if you are lucky, that's the point. Yeah, some already got 50k MGP by it. Others not even 10k and you don't get much for 10k.

And no major risk of losing? Gold and silver packs for the rare cards? Chocobo breeding licenses? You can waste there hundredthousands of MGP and can have NOTHING at the end. And of course this is an immense loss inside this game. You can easily translate the MGP grind to a gil grind. In the time you make 10k MGP you could also generate 1M gil or more. And then you buy four gold packs with these 1M gil aaaaaand it's gone!

It's a MASSIVE loss.

Gold Saucer is not meant to keep you away from other content. We wouldn't see a need for an expansion or new updates if that were the case. You're meant to just go there to kill time (or if you have the drive to grind the hell out of MGP). So yeah, people will stop doing the content exclusively... I think that's expected by everyone logical.

Your reference to chocobo racing is wrong btw. Why you would be burning MGP is most likely self-inflicted. Being efficient about your time and MGP usage is important if your goal is to make more. The only expense 99% of the player base should care for with racing is the breeding birds, of which they're pretty damn cheap and you only really need one. You're intended to progress your birds pedigree to build up to great stats and abilities (unless you luck out early on). Feeds really only need g1, which you can buy for 1500 gil.

The packs, just like the birds, are a self-inflicted hurt on your MGP. There are ways around them, depending on your goals for TT (such as just trying to hit 30/60 cards). If you're trying to get the best of everything immediately, of course you're going to never have MGP to do stuff. Take some responsibility for your decisions lol.

[Eye_Gore]

Take some responsibility for your decisions lol.

Careful, I mentioned work to this person in a thread they started about MGP, and was threatened by them that they would report me for insulting them.