Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[Mishini_Dracoto]

That is a false assumption. The pressure is not on the tank. The pressure is on the healer to heal that mess.

The pressure is on the tank to make the party feel happy. Pull the right amount of mobs. You are right, pulling a lot of mobs puts a lot of pressure on the healer. I don't have an arguement. But if the tank doesn't pull a lot of mobs, the DPS don't complain to the healer. They don't votekick the healer. They votekick the tank.

Snip!

Great point Lineage. The whole "GIT GUD NOOB" schtick simply isn't as widespread in this game as people make out.

Exactly. I jumped on board with the OP very quickly. My original posts stated that most of the time, I get full commendations in my duties. Hell, I've outlined my practices on the Forums, and you know what people have to say about me? Well, read my Forum Sig. Recently, I've gotten a few comments about the "wall of text" my opening Macro is. . . but most people either ignore it, or say they love it.

and regarding the gamepad argument, I can easily hit the bow emote, using the menu, in between GCD's.

. . . to which I get more laughter

[NyarukoW]

...I have also never witnessed a tank browbeat players for wiping to a speedrun....

Now we know you are either really lucky or you are flat out forgetting or misrepresenting the facts. I still remember the first time I tried to heal WP and I was still figuring out my SCH, when WP speedruns were all the rage way back when for myths and I got in there on like ilevel47 gear (which was crap but I thought was so great). I told them I was new, and they said it was easy stuff. Needless to say it was a wipe not of my own doing when all the mobs came after me and killed me immediately on the first pull. The tank started to cuss me out followed by the DPS. They vote kicked me and I rejoined in progress to the same group and then the tank left. We got a replacement tank and he put those dps in their place telling them people are new and how everyone was new once and you can not expect to speed run everything. We cleared with basic pulls and not at world record time but we cleared, and now I am trying to pay that forward.

The pressure is on the tank to make the party feel happy. .... But if the tank doesn't pull a lot of mobs, the DPS don't complain to the healer. They don't votekick the healer. They votekick the tank.

Seriously, you want me to believe this load of baloney. When the pull kills the tank and wipes the party they will start cussing at the healer. And they won't vote kick either the tank or the healer because the DPS knows they will be stuck waiting often for a good long while. And if they vote kick the tank, I am out of there with tank ASAP. Tank and healer have fast queues, the DPS don't got jack over us for vote kicks, heck we'd join right back in progress to lecture the DPS if I am so inclined sometimes. I remember doing exactly that when I was learning to tank on my GLA in Cutter's cry some 9 months ago because I didn't know how to speed run and skip those mobs after the second boss. Needless to say the DPS had to shut up and put up with it. a.k.a deal with it, and I reported all their verbal harassment to the GM with their choice cussing and all. I just hope they got their penalty. And I know the same speed runners harass new WHM to kite the adds at the princess and for a new player they do not know how to do that or do it well.

For one lucky smooth speed run every now and then, the speed runners sure cause a lot problems and a lot of unnecesary collateral damage.

... There is also no shame in trying a speedrun, then wiping, then taking things easy from then on ...

This is a viable alternative provided that it doesn't end up with verbal abuse. But too often immediately after the wipe the finger pointing start and the bashing of the noob starts. So when I heal if I can nip the speed run at the bud, I will choose to let the tank get nailed while the party does not wipe and the mobs are dead. This sets the tone to either communicate and/or be more cautious and/or go slower.

[Moqi]

But if the tank doesn't pull a lot of mobs, the DPS don't complain to the healer. They don't votekick the healer. They votekick the tank.

That's if they don't get kicked first. As a healer, I have initiated more than one vote kick for DPS who started insulting the tank for not pulling enogh at the first pull.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

That's if they don't get kicked first. As a healer, I have initiated more than one vote kick for DPS who started insulting the tank for not pulling enogh at the first pull.

I am always 100% against vote kicking without a discussion. No matter how bad a dungeon gets, I prefer to educate, and work through the dungeon, without abandoning it. The only time I issue a votekick, is when I give advice, (which as I've stated, is typically only after a wipe or two) and people are still obviously doing the opposite of what I've said. Or if they are obviously trolling. (or doing things like, running out of a boss fight and getting locked out, for no reason)

[AlexionSkylark]

Actually, Mister, a speed run should NOT be the default. If you were a decent person, you would ASK people if they're OK with a speed run. And only do it if they agree UNANIMOUSLY. Yeah, if there's only ONE person who rather have a normal-paced run, you damn well should do it. Now, one interesting thing is that me, as a WHM main, always thought tanks were the assholes who forced speedruns down everybody's throats.

So... I lvled a tank.

Now I see DPSses and even HEALERS running off and grabbing everybody and their mother while I deal with the first pull, then bringing them to me. Last time in Amdapor Keep I just lost my temper and worte in chat "WHM should f'ing stop pulling shit". The answer? "Then pull more". Can you believe the nerve? After I told him a thing or 2 about how dungeons are supposed to be run, he kept doing it... except this time I just grabbed popcorn and stood behind watching him die. After that the run was smooth as butter.

[Nova_Rox]

Actually, Mister, a speed run should NOT be the default. If you were a decent person, you would ASK people if they're OK with a speed run. And only do it if they agree UNANIMOUSLY. Yeah, if there's only ONE person who rather have a normal-paced run, you damn well should do it. Now, one interesting thing is that me, as a WHM main, always thought tanks were the assholes who forced speedruns down everybody's throats.

So... I lvled a tank.

Now I see DPSses and even HEALERS running off and grabbing everybody and their mother while I deal with the first pull, then bringing them to me. Last time in Amdapor Keep I just lost my temper and worte in chat "WHM should f'ing stop pulling shit". The answer? "Then pull more". Can you believe the nerve? After I told him a thing or 2 about how dungeons are supposed to be run, he kept doing it... except this time I just grabbed popcorn and stood behind watching him die. After that the run was smooth as butter.

Looks like you didnt ask what your pt prefers

[Mishini_Dracoto]

(stuff) . . .
So... I lvled a tank. Now I see DPSses and even HEALERS running off and grabbing. . .
. . . (more stuff)

Looks like you didnt ask what your pt prefers

I'm pretty sure you just proved our point.

Your feedback, is that the DPS, and the healers, want you to pull more. Instead of kicking you, they are just pulling more.

I have an entirely different post I think in the tank forums, maybe elswewhere, where I actually posted circumstances that make this OK. For example, they pull mobs and park them right on top of mobs you are already fighting. PLD? Circle of Scorn + Flash. WAR? Overpower. You are now doing a Speed Run, because clearly your party wants you to.

People don't like going slow. Thank you for proving our point for us lol.

[Elim]

Meh.

I main tank on my alt(which I also raid on). At the start of every dungeon I ask "Big or small pulls? If no one replies I'll do what I think's best." And MOST of the time no one says a thing, so I'll speed run if every looks half-decently geared. I never get mad if we wipe, I just pull small the next time.

Not going to assume everyone's bad and pull small just because a healer is too lazy to type, "small" on a soft keyboard.

[AlexionSkylark]

You are now doing a Speed Run, because clearly your party wants you to.

My PARTY didn't want to, the HEALER did. One of the DPSses was my Fiancée doing her first lvl 50 dungeon with her main, who CLEARLY didn't want a SR, and the other DPS was OK with either.

In that case, he did exactly that. Ran off, brought 5-6 mobs and parked next to me. What I did? stopped using AoEs, and began cycling only through the mobs I was already engaged. Healer died and learned his place. It's not by holding himself hostage that he'll dictate the pace of the dungeon run.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

My PARTY didn't want to, the HEALER did. One of the DPSses was my Fiancée doing her first lvl 50 dungeon with her main, who CLEARLY didn't want a SR, and the other DPS was OK with either.

In that case, he did exactly that. Ran off, brought 5-6 mobs and parked next to me. What I did? stopped using AoEs, and began cycling only through the mobs I was already engaged. Healer died and learned his place. It's not by holding himself hostage that he'll dictate the pace of the dungeon run.

I honestly don't understand not wanting to do runs quickly, except in certain circumstances, such as if there are cutscenes.

Why do you want to complete the dungeon, in an hour, instead of 20 minutes? If your Fianceé is a DPS, and DPS' as best as they can, and can kill all the mobs, then great. If your healer pulls more mobs, you get threat on them, and you all wipe, THEN you say "hey, don't do that, or we won't pick them up." but why not Try?