Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[Amenian]

Wrong question was asked base on incorrect assumption. Ask if people want to speed run. If they don't respond and/or say yes, then do NOT speed run.

Your defaults are wrong and will invariably frustrate you. The only safe assumption is the lowest common denominator.

Pretty much this. Given unknown variables, you should be veering on the side of caution, not expediency.

[NyarukoW]

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For the most part, the pressure is put on the tank to pull at a speed that the part is comfortable with. Since most people want fast, your default speed, should be fast.....

That is a false assumption. The pressure is not on the tank. The pressure is on the healer to heal that mess.

And you do NOT need 10 minutes to ask half-pull, or full pull. No response should imply half or less. And I've done my share of tanking, but when on the DF I do a lot more healing. Tanks that think they set the pace got a can of surprises going their way. Even if I main a DPS class, I heal mostly on DF because the queue is faster although not as fast as tank and I go tank when the healer queue takes too long. But moreover I can make up for a tank screwing it up more as healer, but never the other way around.

And if a tank insist on silent speed pulls, well as a healer I do this, regen, medica2, and then holy spam. Big pulls means I will holy spam the hell out of the mobs. If I time it right, which is 99.9% of the time, all the mobs are dead along with the tank but the rest of the party will be perfectly fine, and if I get it wrong the DPS will live but I will be dead with the tank. In any case, I get to recharge my MP while the tank makes the walk of shame back to the group and so much for the speed run. I won't waste that bene on the tank on a silent speed pull guaranteed. Tanks that want to pull big better be able to take big bunches of hits. The tank better be able to take the heat or get out of the kitchen so to speak.

[cain8602]

I know this is a discussions for tanks, but let me play Devil's Advocate here. What if the Tank is new, and they say nothing? Is it on them?

I know what was already said about assuming, but I went through an AK HM run a little while ago. Tank was geared enough, though a bit sluggish. First boss, he tanked near statues and didn't hide when he got targeted. Naturally, we wiped.

Because of the aforementioned tank stigma, I assumed he was a troll and left. The possibility that he was new didn't occur to me until after.

In short, I agree with the sentiment that people need to speak up if they're new.

[Kleptobrainiac]

Pro tip: Don't be a jerk. Ever. Not even in a ranting post on an internet forum.

You're welcome.

[Mercutial]

Any other BLM's here ever see anything other than a speed run? Once the tank sees one (or even two) BLM's, it's off to the races. Which I love mind ya, but I honestly haven't been part of a leisurely paced run since the first SM dungeons.

[LineageRazor]

I am honestly surprised there are so many people here with venomous things to say about speedrunning. I think once, MAYBE twice, have I ever received criticism for mass pulls. More often than not, EVERYONE is happier with a speed run. It gets things done quickly, and it prevents boredom. I gearcheck my allies whenever I enter an instance, and unless gear is seriously underpar I'll speedrun by default, and the commendations come pouring in.

If someone asks to slow down, I'm happy to comply. In general, though, folks want to get things done with, whether they are new or experienced.

I am also in agreement that it is up to newcomers to request advice. If we're talking speed runs, we're talking level 50 dungeons or higher - mass pulling on lowbie dungeons is NOT WORTHWHILE in most cases, as few jobs have decent aoe ability at those levels. By the time you've reached level 50, even if you've gotten there without a keyboard by then you've most likely created a few macros to help communicate with other players - including admitting you're new and asking for explanations if you need them.

People who are hostile toward newbies are the exception, not the rule, and it's important for newcomers to learn this. Players in general are happy to give advice and lend assistance. You won't be shunned or kicked for admitting that you're new, and you'll never learn if you don't ask questions.

If I time it right, which is 99.9% of the time, all the mobs are dead along with the tank but the rest of the party will be perfectly fine, and if I get it wrong the DPS will live but I will be dead with the tank.

So, the healer admits to deliberately sabotaging the run to prove a point and satisfy their own ego, when they COULD have instead worked toward a smooth and successful run. Clearly, the tank is the villian here!

[Mercutial]

Great point Lineage. The whole "GIT GUD NOOB" schtick simply isn't as widespread in this game as people make out.

[NyarukoW]

... What if the Tank is new, and they say nothing? Is it on them?

Expecting new people to speak up is unreasonable and unrealistic. Try a new tank in sastasha on a PS3/4 without a keyboard. They may not even know how to chat in the text chat box.

In short, I agree with the sentiment that people need to speak up if they're new.

I advise all the newer players in the FC to announce that they are new on the DF, but you can't assume that all new player will do that. And people you meet on the DF, you need to assume that they can be possibly anything even be AFK bots or trolls and handle them accordingly, what you can not assume is that you will have a smooth speed run without everyone in agreement in the affirmative form.

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So, the healer admits to deliberately sabotaging the run to prove a point ...

The healer is not sabotaging the run, the big pull needs big DPS or the whole party is going to wipe. The tank is the necessary sacrifice, because if the tank is still up, then they will speed into the next room/boss/pull and wipe everyone there when the healer has no MP. Been there done that enough times to know it is better to give the tank firm shake and wake them up to be more sensible.

...By the time you've reached level 50, even if you've gotten there without a keyboard by then you've most likely created a few macros to help communicate with other players - including admitting you're new and asking for explanations if you need them....

More nonsensical assumptions. Many players doing FCOB don't know how to use macros, and so they just require people to be on mumble and TS and just simply call out stuff. New fresh 50s, good luck if they know that they can make macros. You'll probably have to explain to them how to put together a macro.

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BTW the speed run itself is not the problem. The problem is the speed runner. The assumptions that the speed runner makes is just plain wrong and the evidence is plain obvious from all the wipes it has caused and continue to cause. In addition the speed runners will verbally abuse the new players and force 1st-timers to skip cutscenes and that is just not the best way to do things. There is no shame in going slower or at least taking, heck 10 minutes (massive exaggeration, more like 60 secs) to communicate if you must.

[LineageRazor]

The healer is not sabotaging the run, the big pull needs big DPS or the whole party is going to wipe. The tank is the necessary sacrifice, because if the tank is still up, then they will speed into the next room/boss/pull and wipe everyone there when the healer has no MP. Been there done that enough times to know it is better to give the tank firm shake and wake them up to be more sensible.

I'm not even remotely suggesting that wipes happen because the healer is doing it on purpose - I'm suggesting that YOU cause wipes becuase YOU are causing them on purpose. You admitted to explicitly that in your own post, which I quoted. You are timing things to deliberately kill the tank. YOU are breaking the run, not the tank, because you feel the tank needs to be "taught a lesson".

I have never had a healer deliberately try to kill me to prove a point - or if they have tried, they have failed so badly that I did not even notice the attempt. This is your own personal quirk, and thankfully the vast majority of healers are better than that. I'd imagine that many healers who would ordinarily side with you against speedruns are shaking their heads, thinking, "No, NyarukoW, please just stop talking and making us look like jerks!"

BTW the speed run itself is not the problem. The problem is the speed runner. The assumptions that the speed runner makes is just plain wrong and the evidence is plain obvious from all the wipes it has caused and continue to cause. In addition the speed runners will verbally abuse the new players and force 1st-timers to skip cutscenes and that is just not the best way to do things. There is no shame in going slower or at least taking, heck 10 minutes (massive exaggeration, more like 60 secs) to communicate if you must.

I've never seen these rampant wipes you're so sure are bound to happen, even when I speedrun with newbies or folks with less than top-notch gear. As I said: Players in this game are BETTER than you give them credit for. They can adapt and succeed, even when you push the envelope.

I have also never witnessed a tank browbeat players for wiping to a speedrun, on the occasions when I've played as healer or DPS. Tanks, just like all players, are mostly good people, in spite of what cynics would have you believe.

You say there is no shame in going slower. This is true. There is also no shame in trying a speedrun, then wiping, then taking things easy from then on (though on the rare occasion that this happens to me, the healer usually speaks up and encourages me to try again - that they've GOT this, this time, and I don't need to slow down for their benefit).

[Kiara1]

But wouldn't it be safer to assume they are new?

There's really not much reason for alts in this game.

actually theres quiet a big reason for alts. You can only get 450 poetics a week, with alts you can gear up more. I assume you can do raids with alts even if you have completed them with your main. So yeah there are big reasons to run alts'

Then there are other reasons, like there are many different races you can play, and you cant be all races on the same character so then you will be needing alts as well.