Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[MythToken]

I usually pull a small amount at first to gauge my group's ability, and increase how much I pull based on how well we are doing/if I am dying/If stuff is dying fast enough ect. Sometimes you can just tell by looking at gear, that everyone is expecting a speed run. It is annoying however, to pull a boss and someone have no idea what they are doing, and not say anything beforehand. Like "what does this guy do?" or "first time". While I can understand people not wanting to single themselves out as new. I would much rather take the 20 seconds to explain the boss, so speak up.

Both sides have a point.
1. new players need to speak up (being scared to speak up only makes your problems worse)
2. veterens need to have more patience
I have gotten brand spanking newbies through some tough encounters quite easily, by taking the 20 seconds or so to explain a boss, and to pull the encounter based on my groups skill level.

[Kosmos992k]

new players need to speak up (being scared to speak up only makes your problems worse)

While I agree that it would be better if people did speak up, the trouble is that for players who are naturally shy or quiet, having someone actively pushing them to speak up will often have the opposite effect. That's as true in this game as it is in life. Some people just do not speak up, and when pressed to do so, will clam up even more. Combine that with the possibility of English not being their native language, and you have a recipe for disaster when people presume that quiet players are intentionally refusing to interact.

Patience is a virtue. Patience with friends is always appreciated. But, patience in a group of strangers is priceless.

[Ashkendor]

Tank pulls lots of mobs then wonders why they're taking so long to die. I mean, I do ok AoE damage as a NIN, but just ok. I definitely can't carry the AoE by myself. And a monk? lol...

2 melee = pull 1 pack at a time and watch things melt under focused single target damage + healer DPS'ing.

Making 2 melee AoE is just ridiculously slow.

when I see a bunch of fully decked out people in my party I'm going to pull everything I see and go to town, but if the healer is some guy fresh into the ilvl bracket for that dungeon I'm not gonna say hey buddy watch this and run train on him.

"Hey, the SCH is using a Darklight grimoire and a couple of pieces of AF gear. Maybe I should take it slow."

Yeah, it's totally a thing. :3

@OP - it's generally safer to assume people are new and didn't speak up than to assume that the silence means nobody is new. Several possbilities as to why you didn't get a response have already been suggested.

[Whiston]

Logic

THIS!

Don't assume a speed run, don't assume single pulls, don't assume players skill level is equivalent to their gear level.

Instead of thinking "Nobody is new, PULL ALL THE THINGS!!! 111", pull half the things and see how they do. Did they demolish them easily? Now pull all the things. Did you struggle a bit? Pull half the things for the remainder. Did you wipe? Obviously a speed run is not going to happen now.

In my opinion, the fault of a failed speed run as per OP's situation is entirely the tanks fault for being unable to judge the party skill level correctly.

Pro tip, pulling everything and wiping takes substantially longer than splitting that into two pulls to gauge everyone's abilities.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

THIS!

Don't assume a speed run, don't assume single pulls, don't assume players skill level is equivalent to their gear level.

#DoYouEvenTankBro?

Almost nobody wants to sit around at the beginning of the instance, and chat for 10 minutes, to agree on how fast or slow to pull.

For the most part, the pressure is put on the tank to pull at a speed that the part is comfortable with. Since most people want fast, your default speed, should be fast, and slow down as is necessary or preferred by the entire group. but, if I'm right, the OP is merely saying "If you say you are new, or ask me to go slow, I will go slow. If you say nothing, I will go fast." Since MOST people want to go fast, that makes sense. Most of the time, his parties will appreciate it. Don't just start B*(&%ing and moaning because he started fast.

And yes, if you get a party with MNK+DRG, or DRG+MNK, the mobs tend to melt away pretty quickly. That being said, if you pull them one pack at a time, your MNK won't be maintaining perfect balance. I would actually argue, that if you can pull a large group and hold em still, a large pack is still more beneficial, as long as the MNK is good. that's pretty situational though, and if you notice that your MNK appears to be doing it wrong / isn using earthcrusher or w/e AoE they have and spamming it, just pull less, so (s)he stops, so that they DPS properly, and you win.

I agree with the quote "Logic"

I disagree with saying don't make assumptions. I make assumptions all the time. Things like "It's probably safe to breathe the air in my bedroom when I wake up in the morning" "My boss most likely knows what he's talking about when he gives me specific intrusctions" and you know what? Sometimes you are wrong. It's better than the alternative.

[ExKage]

Most people don't say anything because most tanks they've met who started to speedrun will not change their pace. They'll just keep forcing the speedrun or their pace or quit. Or force people to kick them. Other times, they don't want to say anything because of just previously said motion. Also, minor correction, MNK wants Greased Lightning stacks not perfect balance.

People don't complain about speedruns because the pace is kept timely. They hate speedruns because tanks make massive pulls that some people inwardly grumble about but because of said before reason they won't say it while the tank is still doing their thing. A Monk will still lose stacks if you just mass pull. It's pulling groups in a good pace that will keep their stacks up.

[Yukariko]

perhaps it's cos the community has such a bad reputation for being anti-new-person, that even when it clearly states "new person bonus" they don;t want to own up cos 9 times out of 10 they are going to get yelled at for the slightest mistake.
so would rather keep there head down and say nothing.

true story, I once joined an ex primal and said "hi I'm new, please carry me" and without even a response, someone quit there and then. I wasn't new, had the fight on farm for months, was bored and being silly, but it speaks volumes about the DF player base.

Those are the runs new players will remember far more than the awesome teachers and helpful players they will run into.

[Whiston]

#DoYouEvenTankBro?

nobody wants to sit around at the beginning of the instance, and chat for 10 minutes.

I agree with the quote "Logic"

Oh don't get me wrong, I am entirely sure you and I are in agreement on this, but I may be misunderstood.

When I DF a dungeon, I politely say hi during loading screens, and then I wait for buffs and do a quick check on the other players.

If they're using dreadwyrm weapons or other similar gear, I'll probably pull the whole thing. If they're in i90, I won't assume they are competent to efficiently handle an entire room of mobs.
I entirely agree that most people WANT to go fast, as do I, and I would prefer to pull entire dungeons at once if I can. However, it's similar to carpentry, or having a haircut for instance. How much hair would you like trimmed? Don't sya more than you think because you can't put hair back after it's cut. Similar to a pull, if you pull more than they can handle, you can't "unpull" those mobs, you just die and start again, and wasted time.

Also a players desire to go fast and their ability to go fast are two entirely different entities.
Recently we did a dungeon with a monk, all weathered gear and an Atma weapon who kept saying "Pull more! Go faster!" Meanwhile he was being outDPS'd by a significant amount by the other DPS... and the tank... and the healer.

We continued at a rapid pace pulling 6-8 mobs at once instead of 15. It was to the benefit of the group to do it that way.

[NyarukoW]

Thanks for reading the full post guys!

I asked. No one responded. Safe to assume they're alts.

Wrong question was asked base on incorrect assumption. Ask if people want to speed run. If they don't respond and/or say yes, then do NOT speed run.

Your defaults are wrong and will invariably frustrate you. The only safe assumption is the lowest common denominator.

[Ronyx]

Good luck with your speed run that you're trying to force on new mute players .

LOL so true like 95% of the time if you try to run a speed run with someone completely new and with no up top date gear for the dungeon level... the run will be uber slow. The only exception is when you at least got a SUPER DPS... one of those super OP that can take hate easy from a well gear tank, in which case the low dps of the new person wont matter much.